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+--- Thread: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales (/showthread.php?tid=9312)
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RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kage - 03-16-2015
I've become selfish enough that after almost 2 months being in the same phase or so I gave a one week's notice of sorts that I'll be doing all I can to get a T13 clear and if people don't like it and won't get it together I'll be leaving.
My friends and I did T13 Saturday night with my having only been to divebombs as well as the War OT and seeing a 6% enrage because of mismanaged tethers/TempestWing (<-I find this really funny cause I have a friend who uses this as a handle somewhere)
6%
It's just a game, but I find this shit some of the more rewarding parts of my raiding. I don't want to be frustrated enough that I start being frustrated with people and not at the situation.
I need and want this clear before March 31.
6% T_T;
Edit: anyway. WAR OTs. Holmgang that 3rd Akh Morn with butt clenches! Seeing your hp go to 1 3 times scares me too. Just... make sure CDs go off before that Akh Morn kay? We need you to help the PLD. Pls don't die. I can't soak with a PLD. I squishy.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Eva - 03-16-2015
Last week I needed 1-2 more 'trial' type roulettes to finish a mahatma on DRG. Â I usually just queue up Trials roulette because whatever. Â I don't spam them. Â My sense is that I'm at that last message "soul attunement for this mahatma is almost done, go go go!" or such, and I don't want to overdo it with a WoD run or something that's going to take a long time.
So we get in and it's Garuda HM (who must have had the bright status). Â Two of the other DPS have under 4k HP and one of the healers is clearly new as well and my mindset is like, "Okay, this isn't going to be a blitz like usual and I'll just kill the green-tethered sister."
So the higher level WHM pulls hate, says in /p that he's tanking the sisters and he'll be fine, and to focus DPS on the boss and rattles off his HP tallies (he has like 7k+ so he's wearing tank jewelry for all the good that's doing). Â And he's way back away from Garuda. Â Pretty sure he's a tank main and knows how to keep hate well enough on the sisters, but obviously very clueless about the party composition and rages that we should have all focused on Garuda after we inevitably wipe (because sister(s) not killed). Â Mind, my DPS went to the sister even after he said to focus DPS on boss, but Garuda still had a boatload of HP left at the wipe and my contribution would not have tipped the scales. Â But he was pissed at me. Â >.>
Take 2, echo buff now... same thing happens and I speak up, "Dude, we have 2 fresh DPS here and we're not making the cut. Â Just let us kill the sister. Â He spouts his HP macro again like being a white mage with 8000 hp is somehow going to miracle us a win. Â And I'm like, "That's nice, but we're just going to wipe again. Â A monk joined me and we killed the green sister. Â He yammered some insults and other nonsense and the other sister used her move. Â The other lowbie healer fixed everything and we killed Garuda normal and went on. Â I got 5 commendations (as a DRG on a Garuda HM that's kind of unprecedented).
But it wasn't enough for my mahatma so I flagged one more time. Â Same WHM in the group. Â This time we had one new DPS and I didn't feel like taking chances. Â He spouted off his HP totals again and said let me tank the sisters. Â I said, "Hello again. Â I'm going to target the green sister. Â If no one else does, we're going to wipe the first run again. Â I don't want to waste time any more than you do but we'll probably wipe if we focus boss on the first run."
More cursing and namecalling but most of the other DPS joined me and we downed both sisters then killed Garuda and got the win without any wipes, even though we all had to go clear across the battlefield to where this WHM was holding them.  He was not happy but w/e. My mahatma was finished there and I was content to run WoD or take a break instead.
It's great if you're a healer that can hold the adds.  I do that too sometimes on WHM when it's warranted.  But when there's simply not enough DPS to fell Garuda in the party, all you're doing is sealing a death sentence and forcing a re-run.  >.>  (I was not happy about the insults the other day but I'm over it now, and venting here helps a lil too.  ^^ )
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Nebbs - 03-16-2015
@Eve I have seen this also, and they really should let the OT just take em, he does sod all dps and has mitigations.
a WHM is better healing the party of 8 or dpsing, not tanking when you have a tank already.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Sounsyy - 03-16-2015
(03-16-2015, 12:22 PM)Kage Wrote: Holmgang that 3rd Akh Morn with butt clenches!
I had a "Spread Like Buttcheeks!" macro that I used to pop for T9 to tell my party to spread in last phase. T13 has transformed the macro into "Clench Your Buttwings!" >< So, so very much damage!
(03-16-2015, 01:10 PM)Eva Wrote: Â I got 5 commendations (as a DRG on a Garuda HM that's kind of unprecedented).
I would've given you six. I see this a lot on Hyp datacenter DF, parties that can't meet the DPS requirement, mainly because you mix 1-3 people doing Zeta in with 2-3 people doing Nexus and then there's always 1 or 2 people who are brand-spanking new to the fight, or at least on very low geared classes trying to get their relic. Almost invariably (Depending on the number of new people) you're going to need to kill a sister to prevent a wipe. Especially if, as Nebbs says OT + MT aren't pulling down any DPS or healers aren't carrying any DPS either.
I usually go OT for my WAR Zeta Garuda grinding (god say that 5x fast) and have really just gotten to the point where I just tank the sisters. I know my WAR can pull about 300 dps in that fight... but it's honestly not worth wiping over if there's a sizable HP pool left and no LB. Does it add 30 extra seconds to the fight, yep, but 30s is better than 3 minutes IMO and I just put my 300 dps into trying to see if I can kill a sister solo before Garuda goes down/adds disappear.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Melodia - 03-16-2015
Played World of Darkness this weekend and had Warrior tank in our party and two Paladins in the other. Our tank would pull each and every time and then after a minute would shout to the Alliance: "Voke! Someone voke please!" After a few wipes one of the other tanks asked "Why do you do that?"
Her reply: "Warrior DPS!"
Tank reply: "You are more than capable of tanking as we have been fighting for aggro the entire run. If you want to pull, tank the bosses and stick with it."
Her: "Look....just voke it off me and we'll be fine."
"And we'll be fine..."
"..we'll be fine..."
Because of her shenanigans we wiped multiple times and the bosses were all over the damn place.
Lesson? (And I'm also a tank so I preach this loud) If you want to pull the bosses and act like a tank, then do the job. If you want to half ass it as a tank and instead want to DPS.....THEN BE A DPS!!
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - SessionZero - 03-16-2015
(03-16-2015, 01:44 PM)Melodia Wrote: Played World of Darkness this weekend and had Warrior tank in our party and two Paladins in the other. Our tank would pull each and every time and then after a minute would shout to the Alliance: "Voke! Someone voke please!" After a few wipes one of the other tanks asked "Why do you do that?"
Her reply: "Warrior DPS!"
Tank reply: "You are more than capable of tanking as we have been fighting for aggro the entire run. If you want to pull, tank the bosses and stick with it."
Her: "Look....just voke it off me and we'll be fine."
"And we'll be fine..."
"..we'll be fine..."
Because of her shenanigans we wiped multiple times and the bosses were all over the damn place.
Lesson? (And I'm also a tank so I preach this loud) If you want to pull the bosses and act like a tank, then do the job. If you want to half ass it as a tank and instead want to DPS.....THEN BE A DPS!!
As a Warrior OT primarily, I'm incredibly confused as to why she pulls the mobs THEN asks to have them voked off her. Why not just... let one of the Pallys take them and run sans Defiance?
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Melkire - 03-16-2015
(03-16-2015, 01:50 PM)SessionZero Wrote: As a Warrior OT primarily, I'm incredibly confused as to why she pulls the mobs THEN asks to have them voked off her. Why not just... let one of the Pallys take them and run sans Defiance?
Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo.
One thing to note is that for many, many folks, this isn't a MMORPG they're playing, it's a Final Fantasy game, and for many folks (there is some overlap here) they're not playing a role, they're playing a flavor. Too many times I have seen shitty tanks who would've been happier (and would've spared us a lot of pain) if they'd just rolled DPS instead of playing PLD or WAR because "I really like swords/axes!"
In short: there are plenty of derpy and/or bad tanks in XIV, trying to understand why they perform as they do will leave you with nothing but headaches.
*beats his head against his desk repeatedly*
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Melodia - 03-16-2015
(03-16-2015, 01:50 PM)SessionZero Wrote:LOL Amen! The thing is...she would ask for the provoke and then leave her defiance up. It was maddening! And every time we would clear a boss she would proclaim in the party chat:(03-16-2015, 01:44 PM)Melodia Wrote: Played World of Darkness this weekend and had Warrior tank in our party and two Paladins in the other. Our tank would pull each and every time and then after a minute would shout to the Alliance: "Voke! Someone voke please!" After a few wipes one of the other tanks asked "Why do you do that?"
Her reply: "Warrior DPS!"
Tank reply: "You are more than capable of tanking as we have been fighting for aggro the entire run. If you want to pull, tank the bosses and stick with it."
Her: "Look....just voke it off me and we'll be fine."
"And we'll be fine..."
"..we'll be fine..."
Because of her shenanigans we wiped multiple times and the bosses were all over the damn place.
Lesson? (And I'm also a tank so I preach this loud) If you want to pull the bosses and act like a tank, then do the job. If you want to half ass it as a tank and instead want to DPS.....THEN BE A DPS!!
As a Warrior OT primarily, I'm incredibly confused as to why she pulls the mobs THEN asks to have them voked off her. Why not just... let one of the Pallys take them and run sans Defiance?
Warrior DEEPS!! ^_^
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - SessionZero - 03-16-2015
(03-16-2015, 01:54 PM)Melodia Wrote: LOL Amen! The thing is...she would ask for the provoke and then leave her defiance up. It was maddening! And every time we would clear a boss she would proclaim in the party chat:
Warrior DEEPS!! ^_^
Ugh, that would send me over the edge lol.Â
"If you want to be a true warrior DEEPS then turn Defiance off and scrub that STR penalty you unimaginable moron."
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kage - 03-16-2015
Starting to learn Warrior and a good opener has been pretty awesome. While my friends were learning new roles in T9, a friend was giving me pointers about a Warrior opener. I'm sure people have different opinions on it...
But getting the amount of stacks at the right time and blowing things up with and without Defiance dancing with the right amount of GCDs before Pacification is cool.
But come on if you're going to keep Defiance up why.
Unless you really think you'll need to be MT soon. Which remains.... why.
Is this person stuck in T5? One of the ways we learned 2-tank T5 was that the OT pulls all the minis while the MT vokes off Twintania. But... WoD.... isn't like that?
In fact, really the OT just is dps except for wolfsbane really. Some tiny other adds but they aren't as big a problem as wolfsbane running amok to kill healers. -_-
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Gegenji - 03-16-2015
(03-16-2015, 01:53 PM)Melkire Wrote: In short: there are plenty of derpy and/or bad tanks in XIV, trying to understand why they perform as they do will leave you with nothing but headaches.
*beats his head against his desk repeatedly*
Seriously. The PVP left/spiritbond right tank I mentioned briefly before? He "likes" doing big pulls, and said he would do them regardless of anything else. We had a NIN and a MNK, and he was wearing that crap and trying to do huge pulls.
... And wouldn't use Flash, but would use Provoke. And never used Tomahawk Lob. It was maddening. Oh, and one of the pulls he MISSED some gargoyles (this was normal Ampador, for my Nexus), so after we managed to scrape through his sketchy large pulls... we got to go back to pick off the stuff he missed.
I think the worst part about it is, really, that there's really little you can do if a tank wants to set a fatal pace. Well, beyond just not follow him and let him die. And then try to get them booted before they rush in again, since you can't initiate a vote-kick while in combat.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Blessed by the Sun - 03-16-2015
One of my most frustrating, target gripes is with a player on our server that I've ran into on several occasions since a botched T9 clear attempt two months back. A member of one of my endgame linkshells, one of the best on our servers known for joining learning/clear groups, had also joined with the intention of helping. While I know TS isn't a requirement for T9, it is helpful for people who are learning the fight or to figure out what others do or do not know in the fight. This guy was our tank and refused to join the TS server. Even much so to say that he absolutely refuses to download it and that we should join in a PSN party chat.
Let it be known that I play on my PS4 and I had no intentions of doing that because not every one has $400 to invest in a PS4, nor do they want too. Same with spending $200 on a vita just for voice chat. But nearly everyone owns some sort of computer or laptop to download it for free or a tablet or smartphone that they can buy TS for under $3. (I'm aware of the price difference between Android and iOS devices.)
Needlessly to say, it did not result in a clear. I joined a PS4 learning/clear party some days later and saw he was tanking for it. I admit, I called him out because it was the only way I remembered who he even was. I then turned my eyes on the party make up to see that there were two tanks and questioned it. I probably deserved what came next because of my attitude towards him and my assumption that me joining that party was already a bad mistake. Another member of the party got snappy with me saying, "This is a learning party so we can do this how ever we like." When I retorted with asking them why they weren't practicing more efficient, proven ways to clear T9 and questioned if they were even trying to go for the clear, I was kicked out of the party for my bad attitude. Not even a hour later, I joined a T9 farming party. Didn't use TS, got my clear and four additional runs with some pretty nice healer gear out of it. HA SCH Book dropped twice so I was able to leave with it the second claim. (Score!) Meanwhile talking to member of the party I got kicked from, they never made it to Heavensfall.
Was was even more telling about his ability, which I am not sure if it was lack therefor of or he just didn't care, he joined my FC's Leviathan EX farming run two weeks ago as an off tank. He absolutely REFUSED to hold hate on Levi's tail that left my co-healer with hate the majority of the the run. When it wasn't on her, it was on our bard.
Another one of my frustrations come from people who blame me for wipes that are outside of my control. In a previous FC I was in before I joined with my friends, I was asked to help in a T9 clear for another FC mate despite it being late and I had to go to work early in the morning. During this fight, for the first two phases, I usually just leave Eos in the center of the arena until Heavensfall. We could never make it past the first set of golems because both the WHM and BRD (both members of my FC) could not or would not take the respective golems away from the center and Eos would grab the initial hate. This happened about three times. The WHM was getting upset with me because I would not move Eos or even myself to the position he wanted.Â
I did not want to upset them by snapping back and saying if they did their roles correctly, it would have never been an issue because it has NEVER been an issue in any previous runs EVER.
I was also blamed for could have been a hypothetical wipe in T10 by some player. While I have T10 on farm status and got it down to a science, especially with my own positioning, this player had the audacity to call me out for standing too close to the person who was marked for Wild Charge and proceeded to 'school' me on where I should be, when I and other should move and so forth. All this in despite of the fact that when this player was marked with Wild Charge, he or she would get there so late that they would get stunned on the way to the way mark instead of already being safely there.
tl;dr: I become very frustrated by people who refuse take endgame content as seriously and effectively as they should that result in not just a waste of other people time, but mines especially. I also become very frustrated by people who blame me failings that are not in my ability to personally control because of there lack of understanding and performing there own roles because blaming the Healer tends to be a hot trend lately on my server.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kage - 03-16-2015
Yeah T9 can be done without TS but it's just as well if you do it with in case someone makes a stupid mistake.
Like.... forgetting when to mark divebombs. Or.... not checking if golems ate the meteors and "OH THE ONE WE ARE PUSHING NEEDS TO EAT?"
Or knowing your BRD is giving you nice, lovely Battle Voice+Foe's and you're the BLM. Just... so I know I need to Quelling >.>;
"Oh 4k FIRE III, I love you BRD"
Party: WOAH WOAH WOAH WHAT'S GOING ON
PLD: Was that me? Oh it was Kage.
Me: Huh? Oh. ... I'm sorry I'll use Quelling now.
Some people are stupid. If you absolutely gotta 2 tank T9, I hope one of them is STR spec'd. if not, it's super stupid.
Eos in the middle is not a problem really. WHM isn't doing what they should tbh if they can't grab the golem, and neither is the BRD. Eos should not be so powerful. I would've asked about not using Selene, but in that case it makes sense with the people running with.
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Eva - 03-16-2015
Some turd in one of my last WoD runs kept removing the A,B,C markers during Cloud of Darkness fight too... I saw them disappear and started putting them back up a few times and... they kept disappearing.
Buncha savages in those runs half the time....
RE: The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales - Kage - 03-16-2015
(03-16-2015, 04:12 PM)Eva Wrote: Some turd in one of my last WoD runs kept removing the A,B,C markers during Cloud of Darkness fight too... Â I saw them disappear and started putting them back up a few times and... they kept disappearing.When it hits that point, I go "OMG WHERE ARE THERE NO PEOPLE?" and I run into that. As a healer, I don't need to heal anyone in that specific moment and really, no one should be getting stun/silenced. Just make sure that not all 24 people go to the same cloud.
Buncha savages in those runs half the time.... Â