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Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Printable Version

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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Kyatai - 07-22-2013

I just got done working on my Seeker's bio and I have to say that this thread in its entirety was helpful... though was not literally used. (which I think was the point)

In my character's tribe (T' (Condor) which I have not seen anyone else claim as yet- but regardless, it is one of many 'Septs' of the Condor, so not the 'rule' of all Condor Miqo'te):
*  The Tribe is 'led' by a Council of the Elder (non-breeding) females, with the Prime Elder being the present Nuhn's mother. They DO have an overall role in the direction of the Clan and in the worthiness of the present Nuhn. Sure, the Prime might be favored toward her son, but I also envision both would be taken into consideration when deciding on Nuhn.
*  The role of Nuhn is less of a leader role, and more of a service and protector role. His overall job is not only to impregnate the females, but also to protect his 'assets' and the Sept as a whole. I do not see him as being any more elevated in the society as any other, his job is simply specialized.
*  The role of Tia is not an 'lower' status than Nuhn- it is simply the status of those males that are either too young, lacking the genetic qualities favored by the community, too old, perhaps defeated challengers/former Nuhn that choose/permitted to stay or simply just uninterested in the role. These would also serve as protectors of the tribe- but perhaps seen as more 'expendable' than the Nuhn- though the Nuhn (being the most 'powerful' male) would also be in the thick of it.
* The battle for the title of Nuhn is a physical one.The outcome of the defeated is in the hands of the victor. Upon the 'choosing' of a new Nuhn, the Prime Elder is demoted to simply Elder, and the new Nuhn's mother is elevated. If the former Nuhn is killed, the Prime no longer has a role in the tribe at all, and typically heads out into the desert to meet Azeyma.
* The Nuhn has the right of access to breed with the tribe females, but not the right to demand it (aka 'tribal supported rape.') Females have a say- so if a Nuhn is accused of forcing himself on a female, the Elders will see to it he is removed.
One way or another. The only hold back might be not having a suitable Nuhn to install in his place.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Clover - 07-22-2013

Speaking of mating strategies... does anyone have any idea of what age do Miqo'tes breed at?
I'm fearing it'd be a very young age. I don't want my Miqo'te to have had any experience with males (unless the RP itself naturally changes this fact), but I don't want to imagine she's 11 just to make sure that she hasn't done anything *sweatdrops*.
 
I wonder if 16 would be a good age for her. I feel that making her older would be pushing it.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Desmond Aryll - 07-22-2013

(07-22-2013, 05:23 PM)Kyatai Wrote: * The battle for the title of Nuhn is a physical one.The outcome of the defeated is in the hands of the victor. Upon the 'choosing' of a new Nuhn, the Prime Elder is demoted to simply Elder, and the new Nuhn's mother is elevated. If the former Nuhn is killed, the Prime no longer has a role in the tribe at all, and typically heads out into the desert to meet Azeyma.

Wow, this is a great idea for nuance in your tribe! Well done! Sounds like this group can be very intense when it comes to Nuhn ascension as it might potentially change the direction of leadership.


Clover
Quote:


Speaking of mating strategies... does anyone have any idea of what age do Miqo'tes breed at?
I'm fearing it'd be a very young age. I don't want my Miqo'te to have had any experience with males (unless the RP itself naturally changes this fact), but I don't want to imagine she's 11 just to make sure that she hasn't done anything *sweatdrops*.

 
I wonder if 16 would be a good age for her. I feel that making her older would be pushing it.


I kind of think the Miqo'te female's point of view can be a bit more optimistic. To use a loose example, imagine a society where a group of females had to share George Clooney, Chris Hemsworth or whoever they might consider very desirable.

 I would imagine that a significant portion of the population wouldn't see it as a hardship so it wouldn't be something she was forced to do. If your Miqo'te hasn't had that kind of experience I would suggest that it is simply because she's not interested. Just a thought.





RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - growly beast - 07-22-2013

(07-22-2013, 05:23 PM)Kyatai Wrote: I just got done working on my Seeker's bio and I have to say that this thread in its entirety was helpful... though was not literally used. (which I think was the point)

In my character's tribe (T' (Condor) which I have not seen anyone else claim as yet- but regardless, it is one of many 'Septs' of the Condor, so not the 'rule' of all Condor Miqo'te):
*  The Tribe is 'led' by a Council of the Elder (non-breeding) females, with the Prime Elder being the present Nuhn's mother. They DO have an overall role in the direction of the Clan and in the worthiness of the present Nuhn. Sure, the Prime might be favored toward her son, but I also envision both would be taken into consideration when deciding on Nuhn.
*  The role of Nuhn is less of a leader role, and more of a service and protector role. His overall job is not only to impregnate the females, but also to protect his 'assets' and the Sept as a whole. I do not see him as being any more elevated in the society as any other, his job is simply specialized.
*  The role of Tia is not an 'lower' status than Nuhn- it is simply the status of those males that are either too young, lacking the genetic qualities favored by the community, too old, perhaps defeated challengers/former Nuhn that choose/permitted to stay or simply just uninterested in the role. These would also serve as protectors of the tribe- but perhaps seen as more 'expendable' than the Nuhn- though the Nuhn (being the most 'powerful' male) would also be in the thick of it.
* The battle for the title of Nuhn is a physical one.The outcome of the defeated is in the hands of the victor. Upon the 'choosing' of a new Nuhn, the Prime Elder is demoted to simply Elder, and the new Nuhn's mother is elevated. If the former Nuhn is killed, the Prime no longer has a role in the tribe at all, and typically heads out into the desert to meet Azeyma.
* The Nuhn has the right of access to breed with the tribe females, but not the right to demand it (aka 'tribal supported rape.') Females have a say- so if a Nuhn is accused of forcing himself on a female, the Elders will see to it he is removed.
One way or another. The only hold back might be not having a suitable Nuhn to install in his place.

I love this! It works pretty similar for my subsection of the Raptor tribe, especially with the nunh not really being a leader but has other important jobs.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Razamir Lahoka - 07-22-2013

(07-21-2013, 07:59 PM)NKato Wrote: Argue about how a Miqo'te spreads her legs to a mate all you want, you guys are seriously reading too much into it.

Best get your minds out of the gutter, lest this game's RP community turn into another ERP Central, like TERA.

That said, Keeper clan is best clan. :V
I have to agree,  with you NKato.  Wholeheartedly on the fact that this topic comes up way to often on forums and in chat.  Even as an example this thread is getting more replies than many IC ideas / hell even greeting post by new people.

I agree there is being to much read into this one topic, when there are many other things about the seekers that could be speculated on.  Hell for one such instance their nose, as per SE "  have the noses of hounds."  If you bring this topic up, you are shot down as being a metagamer or even godmodder. But to have yourself be a nuhn and have an ic reason to try and "mate" with as many females as possible, which could possibly turn very bad icly, will likely turn out to have more metagaming than the use of their nose.

Before anyone wants to argue that it wont be metagaming/godmodding, take into account people that would abuse this will generally only rp with your character if they think they have a shot at getting something.  Otherwise you will be totally invisible to them icly. Which mean they will be taking ooc knowledge of the fact that your character will or wont do something for them and use it to determine whether their character will even acknowledge you icly. That or they will use blackmail to try and force you to rp with them, such as " if you don't do this I wont rp with you anymore."  I doubt this will be done aloud, but in some form or another it boils down to that statement. 

Now before anyone says they have to agree, yes they do, but lets take this into account, say your character has a nuhn, and your nuhn is challenged and beaten icly by a tia character. Okay you now have a nice new shiny nuhn. Perhaps your character had feelings for the other nuhn, who is now dead/banished/crippled etc.  Now because of whatever reason or another your character isnt going to be to happy with said new nuhn. Your either going to be ignored, if you dont want to be a part of that "breeding" process, or you will get the ooc statement of, if you dont want to do that, i just wont rp with you. As mentioned above.  Because lets face it, there are people who would use this to their advantage, Yes there are people who will not even try to rp with you if they arent able to get something from your character.  Not saying these people are bad people, they might be your friends oocly but when it comes to rp you will be invisible to them.  

tldr =  Why are people focusing on the mating so much of this race, when there are many more aspects to focus on, str/stam/agi their senses ie noses, eyesight, hearing.   etc. Unless alot of people are planning on doing just this " breeding."  Should it really matter if not?  I personally think , if any aspect of the nuhn thing should be focused on is their other duties, such as protecting their lands/ clan members, hunting  etc.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Kyatai - 07-22-2013

I'm not so much focusing on the mating process as the entire culture.
*shrugs*
The OP began discussing it, but it has evolved from there. It's a lot to read- so understandable if you have not read it all.

As to your comments... not sure exactly what to say.
Metagamers/Godmodders will use whatever niche they can find to do their dirty work. Frankly, just because I'll play a Seeker female doesn't mean I'm going to be every Miqo'te male's whore. And... if I were to RP that aspect of the culture with another, it would not be with a douchebag that would threaten to 'stop RPing with me' if I refuse. Because honestly, THAT is not why I RP anyway.

There is FAR more to RP than ERP... and far more to the Seeker culture than mating (as you have mentioned).
But.. talking of nose sizes is stupid, self-limiting and boring. Talking/developing culture ideas to set the Miqo'te apart from being "humans with kitty ears and tails" using what stated lore we have, is not.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - allgivenover - 07-22-2013

(07-21-2013, 07:59 PM)NKato Wrote: Argue about how a Miqo'te spreads her legs to a mate all you want, you guys are seriously reading too much into it.

Best get your minds out of the gutter, lest this game's RP community turn into another ERP Central, like TERA.

That said, Keeper clan is best clan. :V

Skimmed the thread again to be sure, but I'm fairly certain no one is insisting that all Miqo'te adhere to this or "spread their legs to mate".

Indulging this discussion is not the same as endorsing or encouraging ERP, and given the quality of RPers I've run into so far, this community has zero danger of becoming like TERA's.

All things considered, Keeper clan is best clan. /nod

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Rhynka - 07-22-2013

(07-22-2013, 08:34 PM)Kyatai Wrote: There is FAR more to RP than ERP... and far more to the Seeker culture than mating (as you have mentioned).
But.. talking of nose sizes is stupid, self-limiting and boring. Talking/developing culture ideas to set the Miqo'te apart from being "humans with kitty ears and tails" using what stated lore we have, is not.
Tell us how you really feel about it! Because I can only see in your statement that talking about sex with miqo'te is the only thing that must not be BORING!

Wanna talk miqo'te penis then...? What if SE some how announced sex was painful for the miqo'te. It'd make sense seeing as if they had an endless desire to screw like humans, with the social structure they have they'd breed themselves into extinction!!

Let's not lie here honey, the idea that someone such as myself plays the beastly aspect of a miqo'te that can track like a blood hound is bothersome because that might actually make a real RP challenge. Cause RP is actually supposed to be based off adventures of some kind, not the kind you take after you leave the bar through some guy's bush in his trousers. It's boring to you cause you're interested in this tribal aspect that could easily start turning into some distorted BDSM mutation of it that it never needed to be!

You wanna set them apart from humans, let's make mating PAINFUL! You wanna set them apart from humans, dabble in their heightened senses. I mean that could be easily said IC about the ways of that world in general. We can even apply it to the nunh obsession! "Gettin' snuggly with a Nunh's favorite is asking for a maiming as he'll smell your hands all over her!" And well since we're getting so biological on the idea!!!! Let's talk that kinda nature science and the fact that a trail goes cold to a blood hound after 300 hours that's about 12 and a half DAYS! Yes we can wash and so on but there are things WE can't smell that doesn't wash off which a miqo easily could detect... oh but I forgot that's boring!! BUT it isn't making them out to be just hyurs with ears and a tail!! Yet it's still boring, sorry!

So let's talk sex then instead since anything else could be boring! Cause I'm not calling it mating it's just a word being thrown around this thread to water down the real important subject here-MIQO SEX! I also wanna avoid using the term "Breeding" because it just sounds demeaning when referring to a sentient species.

And about meta-gaming, how meta gaming is it when a player with a nunh wants to challenge another simply because they like how one of their females look OoCly. Don't say it doesn't happen cause it happens all the god damn time and I've RPed for over a decade and have seen whole communities crumble to nothing but cybering when obsessing over lore aspects like this. (Not gonna call it ERP cause it's not ERP if there's little IC motivation!)

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Razamir Lahoka - 07-22-2013

(07-22-2013, 08:34 PM)Kyatai Wrote: I'm not so much focusing on the mating process as the entire culture.
*shrugs*
The OP began discussing it, but it has evolved from there. It's a lot to read- so understandable if you have not read it all.

As to your comments... not sure exactly what to say.
Metagamers/Godmodders will use whatever niche they can find to do their dirty work. Frankly, just because I'll play a Seeker female doesn't mean I'm going to be every Miqo'te male's whore. And... if I were to RP that aspect of the culture with another, it would not be with a douchebag that would threaten to 'stop RPing with me' if I refuse. Because honestly, THAT is not why I RP anyway.

There is FAR more to RP than ERP... and far more to the Seeker culture than mating (as you have mentioned).
But.. talking of nose sizes is stupid, self-limiting and boring. Talking/developing culture ideas to set the Miqo'te apart from being "humans with kitty ears and tails" using what stated lore we have, is not.
So discussing their senses, which make them stand apart from the typical human with kitty ears and tails concept.  Such as their strength, and to what limit how much stronger than a human they are,  their flexibility and agility compared to said humans.  Their sense of smell which is the equivalent of a blood hounds nose ie follow a scent that is 300+ hours cold. Which makes them far superior trackers than humans.  Their eyes which are better than a humans, and their ears, which can hear more than a human.  This is limiting?  Considering there is no set standard for these, wouldn't it make sense to discuss these topics, and get a collective opinion on the matter, so you wont have people saying they cant do that or this, or that is god-modding or meta-gaming.

Your right CULTURE of the race, is nice to build upon, but focusing solely on the mating of said race, isnt all there is to its culture.  Their daily habits, the food they eat, their music, their art, their writing, their language, considering the miqot'e have their own language none of the other races can speak, they changed their language so the other races could talk to them, and adapted to the more common tongue. the list goes on and on.  Considering culture  originally meant the cultivation of the soul or mind. Things like I said would be more fitting to their culture.  I think if you want to focus on the "culture of the race, it wouldn't be solely on the habits of their mating.

I  liked your post, but seeing as it seems to mix qualities of both keeper and seeker,  ie female leader when seekers are a patriarchal ( Male leaders) society and keepers are a matriarchal (Female leaders.)  Im not sure how the mating habits really influenced it at all.   As you have stated Nuhns aren't typiclaly leaders, but considering the whole of the seeker culture is patriarchal it would only make sense their leader would more than likely be a male.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - K'nahli - 07-22-2013

Excuse me if I have missed this anywhere, one person implied it but I don't know if it was a personal opinion, part of the lore of just a generally accepted idea.

Would mating be considered a traditional part of their society where it would occur at specific times of the year/when females reach a certain age or would it be a more voluntary thing? I liked the point that someone made about nuhns simply being attractive to females and they(females) choose to mate with them rather being obliged to.

Anyways, my concern is rather simple. I want to know if age would be a factor in the seeker tradition. For example, if we're to assume that females do return to mate with the nuhn at a certain age then I'd want to avoid having my character too close to that age because, as with most of us, we want our characters to explore and have many experiences rather than being tied down to societal obligations like that.

I'd rather not just ignore the lore or whatever people may generally assume about the race so that is why I am curious to know.


Once again I am sorry if this has already been covered but the topic was quite large and delved into areas that I wasn't exactly curious about.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Desmond Aryll - 07-22-2013

Well seeing as this is a discussion originally set to be about Biology, sex would play a big part in that. It's not a stretch if it includes the "why's" behind the nature of the Miqo'te. It doesn't have to be garish or tasteless. I don't think any contributors have gone that route actually. 

Also, biology and sex pervade more of our own lives than we think. There's a reason Katy Perry is more famous than Susan Boyle, ya'know? It doesn't have to come from a bad place. 

If the Miqo'te present a very different version of something we as Humans look at in only a Human way then naturally it would garner attention.

A thread on Miqo'te senses is interesting, we should have a thread about that too. Smile

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Azthran - 07-22-2013

(07-22-2013, 09:23 PM)Wolf Wrote: Excuse me if I have missed this anywhere, one person implied it but I don't know if it was a personal opinion, part of the lore of just a generally accepted idea.

Would mating be considered a traditional part of their society where it would occur at specific times of the year/when females reach a certain age or would it be a more voluntary thing? I liked the point that someone made about nuhns simply being attractive to females and they(females) choose to mate with them rather being obliged to.

Anyways, my concern is rather simple. I want to know if age would be a factor in the seeker tradition. For example, if we're to assume that females do return to mate with the nuhn at a certain age then I'd want to avoid having my character too close to that age because, as with most of us, we want our characters to explore and have many experiences rather than being tied down to societal obligations like that.

I'd rather not just ignore the lore or whatever people may generally assume about the race so that is why I am curious to know.


Once again I am sorry if this has already been covered but the topic was quite large and delved into areas that I wasn't exactly curious about.

There isn't a lot to go on from what I've seen. I had mentioned in an earlier post about some NPC banter I had seen in a Miqo'te village that possibly hinted at a few things such as the Nunh and a female having to plan their interactions in advance. Also thinking on it a bit more it may also suggest that there would be little to no recreational sex involving the Nunh and that the focus of the Couplings, as the NPCs put it, is to simply try to produce offspring.

As for what age a female enters sexual maturity or if there is an obligation to have a child or not I can only speculate. Using that village as an example again the women there are great hunters so it wouldn't surprise me if some of them chose when they wanted to try for children instead of having an obligation to do so.

Again just my thoughts on some observations I've made while in the beta.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - K'nahli - 07-22-2013

(07-22-2013, 09:49 PM)Azthran Wrote: There isn't a lot to go on from what I've seen. I had mentioned in an earlier post about some NPC banter I had seen in a Miqo'te village that possibly hinted at a few things such as the Nunh and a female having to plan their interactions in advance. Also thinking on it a bit more it may also suggest that there would be little to no recreational sex involving the Nunh and that the focus of the Couplings, as the NPCs put it, is to simply try to produce offspring.

As for what age a female enters sexual maturity or if there is an obligation to have a child or not I can only speculate. Using that village as an example again the women there are great hunters so it wouldn't surprise me if some of them chose when they wanted to try for children instead of having an obligation to do so.

Again just my thoughts on some observations I've made while in the beta.

I didn't ask about recreational sex actually but thank you for adding that bit! I had just assumed that that was the case but it's good to have something to mildly back up the idea(if not then someone please indicate otherwise ^^).

I had guessed that a lot of it would be down to speculation and interpretation but I am very thankful for your input ^^/ It reassures me significantly, I hope you are correct.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Naunet - 07-22-2013

(07-22-2013, 09:00 PM)allgivenover Wrote: Indulging this discussion is not the same as endorsing or encouraging ERP, and given the quality of RPers I've run into so far, this community has zero danger of becoming like TERA's.

As a member of TERA's RP community, I should resent that. xP

The focus for me, in topics like this, isn't the mating per se but the culture and societal structure as a whole (gender roles or lackthereof, tribal stratification, duties and activities and how these are distributed on an individual and group level). But that's just me.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Kyatai - 07-23-2013

(07-22-2013, 09:00 PM)Rhynka Wrote:
(07-22-2013, 08:34 PM)Kyatai Wrote: *snip*
*snip*
Wow.
Ok, I'll ignore the flames because it is obvious I misunderstood what you meant by "noses like hounds."
I thought you meant physically- which seemed odd to me, (didn't recall that from Char Creation, but then again, supposedly the ears and tails of Keepers and Seekers are supposed to be different too, and I never noticed that in the CC either) but was like *shrug* okay...
And therefore wasn't exactly sure how that could be Metagamed or... anything... so clearly I missed a large part of the point of your post, and for that I apologize.
Of course reading it -now- it is clear. I have no idea how I misunderstood before, but whatever.

I -really am- into the exploring the entirety of a culture- but societal structure is, as  Desmond mentioned- very much shaped by interpersonal interactions. Which... yes... often involves sex.
Doesn't mean I get off on it. Just means it (apparently) shapes the Seeker culture in significant ways.

Now...
YES.
Going into the physical enhancements of the Miqo'te IS a valid and interesting aspect to discuss. I totally agree and support this, and frankly think that is cool too.  I think exploring that aspect in RP would be awesome. I recall reading about the enhancements once before somewhere, but I don't recall where. All I could recall was the evolution of the iris shape based on sun exposure (and the aforementioned ear/tail shape).
Seems to me that based on the feline attributes, sharper eyesight (esp Keepers at night), increased running endurance (and maybe stride?) would be logical. Enhanced sense of smell? That is a more caninid attribute- but not unheard of since Keepers are supposed to have more wolfish tails, so why not? Would make them great trackers... though I am unsure exactly what the biological benefit of a more wolfish tail would be. Typically tail structure forms to assist balance (or in the case of some monkeys an extra hand). Not sure why the difference in tails between Keepers and Seekers- unless it just has to do with their environment (desert vs forest) and maybe the temperatures....
As far as the others (strength, hearing, etc) also very valid avenues of discussion and these would also play a huge role in total development of what it 'is' to be Miqo'te.

Oh. Regarding the Patrilineal vs Matrilineal focus- My interpretation was that the bloodline was followed through via the male line (which is demonstrated to be 'stronger' physically) in Seekers, but not necessarily making it relevant as the seat of Leadership. Perhaps this is because, traditionally, Seekers live in a harsher environment of the Sargolii, where the ability to protect/fight is a necessity whereas the leadership is more 'cerebral' and led by those that have lived the longest and seen/experienced the most? Which... is actually something I was toying with- having the Leadership be both Elder female and males. Since in my created tribe, former Nuhn were not necessarily killed or run off.
Anyway... honestly fiddling with our human 'structures' and tweaking them a bit to not be literally like 'us' but a shade of...
*shrugs*