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The fall of Ala Mhigo from the perspective of Garlean military - Printable Version

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The fall of Ala Mhigo from the perspective of Garlean military - ARCHITECT - 11-27-2016

Hello, fine lurkers and lorehounds of RPC. How do you do?

I am working on hammering out the background of a grim Garlean alchemist, and as a freshlet in the great big world of Eorzean minutiae, I require your assistance with the details of one particular piece. I will provide a reward, like all quest givers ought to, in the form of thumbs up, my thanks, and 20k experience points. I am unfortunately fresh out of gil, because I lost a bet to a Lalafell.

Onwards!

I am looking for lore details regarding the Garlean takeover of Ala Mhigo, and the associated aftermath. Juicy little tidbits you might have discovered in NPC dialogue, perhaps; and while information from the perspective of the conquered is wonderful, it would be all the sweeter to hear any that discusses anything about how exactly Garlemald and her soldiers acted.
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Here are some more specific questions:

Exactly how technologically advanced was Ala Mhigo? Do we have any idea? If the scuffle with Gridania and Friends had not happened before the Garleans marched in, how would Ala Mhigo have been able to measure up against Magitek? I'm sure we'll learn more about this come Stormblood, but I would like to know of any information we have access to already.

How powerful are we talking when we say the Monks were powerful warriors? What do they do? Could they have realistically been the Ala Mhigan answer to Magitek, if only Theodoric had not come to power and decimated their numbers? I have never leveled a monk so I have no idea, but I understand that the class is closely tied to Ala Mhigan lore, so if you've played through the story your information and perception are valuable!

Here's a total crapshoot, but I'm curious: Have we ever learned what the name and/or location of the Castrum that the Garleans launched their military assault from is? Any details about the attack itself?

If there isn't enough information to go around, perhaps I will have to content myself with waiting until Stormblood--but if there is anything at all, I would rather know it.

Thank you very much for your time and your brainthinks. Please leave the latter in the jar by the door, at your convenience. (It keeps the juices from getting on the carpet.)

RE: The fall of Ala Mhigo from the perspective of Garlean military - Aysun - 11-27-2016

I'll just dump a bunch of resources here. There was recently a discussion about this on tumblr. Here's a bunch of lore provided by Sounsyy (@mirkemenagerie) in response to speculation by another person. Also a link to her Ala Mhigo lore compilation. Here's also the timeline from the lorebook, Ala Mhigo-specific.

Hopefully these will answer some of your questions!

RE: The fall of Ala Mhigo from the perspective of Garlean military - Valence - 11-27-2016

Hello,

Here are some lore compilation threads that should cover most things:

Ala-Migho lore compilation (Sounssy's)
Monk lore compilation (Sounssy's)
Garlemald lore compilation (Sounssy's)
Garlean magitek arsenal (as a bonus)

Exactly how technologically advanced was Ala Mhigo?


Rather well, especially in the military field. They were the absolute masters of the spear with their lancer legions, even if Gridanians come as close seconds, the art of the spear was born in Ala-Migho. And while it's maybe not a criteria in itself set in stone in the lore, you know as well as I know that the spear has always been the backbone of any decent military on the battlefield for eons. It's the king of the weapons for war.

It can also be speculated that Garlemald would have had a LOT of trouble to make Ala-Migho kneel in their golden age before the venue of their King of Ruin. Considering how martial and militaristic they were, they would have welcomed the fight with open arms. I personally think they would not have stood forever alone against the might of the Empire and Magitek of course, considering how even the three cities combined (Gridania, Limsa, and Uld'ah) would have also lost without the help of Louisoix first, and then the Warrior of Light again 5 years later. But considering how Ala-Migho stood in the Autumn War, able to take any other city one to one, and eventually vanquished by the whole Eorzean Alliance (the 3 cities + Ishgard), I would assume that the sheer martial might of Ala-Migho was pretty impressive, and not even for their magics.

How powerful are we talking when we say the Monks were powerful warriors?

It's hard to speculate on an exact measure of the power of jobs and military corps. But we have to keep in mind that monks are a job form, and as such, jobs in the setting of Eorzea tend to be rather powerful and mighty disciplines lost to time or forbidden for their power alone (like Black and White Magic). The lorebook states that even the mighty mighan lancers worst fear are their own monks, the Fists of Ralgr. This can I think, depict a pretty clear idea how powerful monks probably were once deployed on the battlefield.

Add to that what we know of some other jobs in terms of power, and assuming that all jobs come with more or less equal measure of power lore-wise (maybe it's not the case, who knows!), then you have jobs like bards, able to turn the tide of whole battlefield just by singing, or more specifically Black and White Magic, able to endlessly draw their aether from the planet itself, were literally gods wielding almost unlimited amounts of power, bare for the weakness of their frail bodies...

So, the thing is, Eorzea has resisted so well to Garlemald precisely due to their proficiency at Magic, a feat that true blooded Garleans are immune to since they can't use magic. They however make great use of the conquered nations that can and field them as auxiliaries. But, magic alone can rival the power of Magitek, if powerful enough. We see thaumaturges able to shoot down Magitek Reapers in some cutscenes (like the battle of Carteneau). But eventually, magitek is still described as the game changer for Garlemald, and combined with the backbone of their full Empire of all the nations they conquered... Well, you get the idea.

Have we ever learned what the name and/or location of the Castrum that the Garleans launched their military assault from is? Any details about the attack itself?

I don't think so. We don't even know if they use Castra beyond Baelsar's Wall, deep into Garlemald territory... We may probably learn more about that in Stormblood though.

RE: The fall of Ala Mhigo from the perspective of Garlean military - ARCHITECT - 11-27-2016

Bless you, you magnificent hyurman beings. The political situation surrounding the annexation of Ala Mhigo is even more fascinating than I was given to believe from the behavior of the vindictive highlanders in Thanalan. It will be a delight to work it into a story.

This is exactly the sort of loredump I was looking for, and it came so quickly! Thank you both very much for your links and insights.

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RE: The fall of Ala Mhigo from the perspective of Garlean military - Virella - 11-27-2016

Seeming most things have been linked, I'm shamelessly going to plug the Resistance LS Tumblr. It might be easier to quickly look back at that! It also has some more Monk Lore, and I got more in the works as we speak.

We've gathered as much as we could so far (in truth, it's still mostly Sounsyy's because they are awesome at lore things).

http://ala-mhigan-resistance.tumblr.com/tagged/lore


As for monks and pikemen though? I have to disagree there Valance. I haven't seen anything of that. Merely that they were feared as much as the Pikemen of Ala Mhigo. Nothing along the lines of "Monks feared Pikemen". It merely speaks of outsiders dreading them as much. Not the Monks.

[Image: tumblr_of7mjrQV2D1uq64q8o1_1280.jpg]

As for Monks being the answer against Magitek? That is a good question I'm not sure I can answer beyond my own speculation. Yeah, these people rip and destroy things onto their paths. Whereas I think they can easily discard riders, know where to hit machines ect to get them to stop working, Garlemald has huge Magitek monstrosities, and I'm certain Monks would struggle with that. But that's mere speculation at the end. I just have my own Fist of Rhalgr going 'nope' at huge Magitek machines due to this. But mere guessing work on that.

What they do excel in though is killing footsoldiers. But I will get back to you later, as I'm writing up the skills the Fist of Rhalgr have, in game, lore and simply on your skill bar. So you can make your own judgement.

Anyhow. Yeah, I'd hope Sounsyy's links helped you far enough so far Big Grin

RE: The fall of Ala Mhigo from the perspective of Garlean military - L'ohba Tia - 11-27-2016

It's worth noting that Theodoric had wiped out the Fist of Rhalgr before Garlemald made their move, so they would never have actually faced each other in battle.

RE: The fall of Ala Mhigo from the perspective of Garlean military - Virella - 11-27-2016

(11-27-2016, 07:40 PM)L Wrote: It's worth noting that Theodoric had wiped out the Fist of Rhalgr before Garlemald made their move, so they would never have actually faced each other in battle.
That actually isn't... true. Easy to miss out onto if you aren't familiar with Ala Mhigan lore though.

Sounsyy actually had a post on this on Tumblr the other week!

The Garleans were attacking Ala Mhigo before they got taken over. The Ala Mhigan army clashed actively with the Garlean for years. So yes. The Fist and Garleans did meet, because the Monks were a part of the army. We don't know how that gone, but I'm kinda assuming that due to the fact the Garleans couldn't conquer them by force, that the Ala Mhigan army, especially with the Monks (and Hells, still after) was capable of keeping the Garleans off their lands just fine. That also says something about Ala Mhigo's military might mind you.

Ala Mhigo did have Engineers and the like as well! Don't forget about that. They weren't just pikemen and Monks. They had Griffin Knights, Shamans ect. Just the pikemen and Monks were most feared out of all them.

RE: The fall of Ala Mhigo from the perspective of Garlean military - LystAP - 11-27-2016

(11-27-2016, 07:19 PM)Virella Wrote: Seeming most things have been linked, I'm shamelessly going to plug the Resistance LS Tumblr. It might be easier to quickly look back at that! It also has some more Monk Lore, and I got more in the works as we speak.

We've gathered as much as we could so far (in truth, it's still mostly Sounsyy's because they are awesome at lore things).

http://ala-mhigan-resistance.tumblr.com/tagged/lore


As for monks and pikemen though? I have to disagree there Valance. I haven't seen anything of that. Merely that they were feared as much as the Pikemen of Ala Mhigo. Nothing along the lines of "Monks feared Pikemen". It merely speaks of outsiders dreading them as much. Not the Monks.

[Image: tumblr_of7mjrQV2D1uq64q8o1_1280.jpg]

As for Monks being the answer against Magitek? That is a good question I'm not sure I can answer beyond my own speculation. Yeah, these people rip and destroy things onto their paths. Whereas I think they can easily discard riders, know where to hit machines ect to get them to stop working, Garlemald has huge Magitek monstrosities, and I'm certain Monks would struggle with that. But that's mere speculation at the end. I just have my own Fist of Rhalgr going 'nope' at huge Magitek machines due to this. But mere guessing work on that.

What they do excel in though is killing footsoldiers. But I will get back to you later, as I'm writing up the skills the Fist of Rhalgr have, in game, lore and simply on your skill bar. So you can make your own judgement.

Anyhow. Yeah, I'd hope Sounsyy's links helped you far enough so far Big Grin

Also note, there is a distinct gap between Eorzean magic and Garlean magitek, as in any conscript can use a magitek device; you can literally mass produce vanguards, and anyone can ride a Reaper and pull a trigger, while Eorzean mages require a significant training period, much less a monk, who conceptually would dedicate their lives to their art. 

It is also noted that certain disciplines, such as conjury and thaumaturgy, require a certain make-up or natural affinity, not everyone can use magic and not everyone is as potent. Since pure-blood Garleans can't use magic, they have to make magitek, which not only lets them use special abilities, but also anyone else that may originally not had the 'talent' for magic.

In the short term, Ala Mhigo has a edge, especially since it appears that Garlemeld and Ala Mhigo had skirmishes, but we don't know whether it was because Ala Mhigo was actually holding Garlemeld off, or Gaius was just holding back and waiting for the King of Ruin to inevitably do what any experienced leader knew was coming. Lancers are fine and all, but Garlemeld is known for usage of gunpowder weapons. Raubahn was a Ala Mhigan commander who was taken out of action by a sharpshooter, according to the lore book. We'll honestly need to wait for Stormblood to find out the truth.

RE: The fall of Ala Mhigo from the perspective of Garlean military - Valence - 11-28-2016

As I said above, I personally believe that on a lenghty war of attrition and numbers, Ala-Migho would have eventually fallen, much like the Eorzean Alliance would have without the Warriors of Light.

On the limitation of each respective power also, I definitely agree that it works a lot in favor of the Garlics, but we still have to keep in mind that they are also limited by their supplies of Ceruleum, which is mostly concentrated around Camp Blue Fog and the later Castrum Meridianum. They only had access to their reserves back from Ilsabard before the invasion.

Also anyway, Garlemald has access to many magic users in their auxilliaries as well.

RE: The fall of Ala Mhigo from the perspective of Garlean military - V'aleera - 12-14-2016

(11-28-2016, 04:54 AM)Valence Wrote: Also anyway, Garlemald has access to many magic users in their auxilliaries as well.

One point of note is that Eorzea's advantage in magic extends beyond just being able to use it; Eorzea is uniquely dense with aether in comparison to the rest of Hydaelyn, to the point that sensitive foreigners are liable to suffer from aether sickness upon entry. The potency of the average Eorzean in manipulating and deploying aether is likely higher than that of any foreign Garlean conscripts by default.

That's less relevant now that Garlemald has Ala Mhigans in their forces, but probably would have been a factor before the fall of the kingdom.

RE: The fall of Ala Mhigo from the perspective of Garlean military - Valence - 12-14-2016

That's pure speculation however. The aether rich land may indeed spawn inhabitants with a higher potency to aetherial manipulation, but it can also just boost those for anyone that enters the land itself. Or both at the same time.

RE: The fall of Ala Mhigo from the perspective of Garlean military - V'aleera - 12-14-2016

I presume that would occur after the detrimental aether sickness, if it occurred at all.