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+--- Thread: Community Full of Cliques (/showthread.php?tid=17938)
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Arrelaine - 12-28-2016
(12-28-2016, 09:56 PM)Rosehip Wrote: I played back in 1.0, and returned very briefly for ARR, and I do actually remember something about Balmung being called a Legacy server. I remember someone told me you could only create a character there if you had played in 1.0, but tbh, I think that probably wasn't true.Yeah it's a Legacy server, means everything is more expensive. lol That's about it as far as Legacy goes. Otherwise, now it just means you can't create a character anymore because of population
It's a rediculous notion in any regard, but I DO remember hearing about it back then.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Virella - 12-28-2016
(12-28-2016, 10:17 PM)Rosekitten Wrote: My personally solution to the issue is looking to a new server. No the community won't be nearly as large but that is not always a bad thing either. Not sure if the OP will read new posts or not but a server change is an option if you really are that unhappy with where you are. (No I didn't read through the pages and pages to see other replies so sorry if it was a suggestion already. I'm sure there is a lot of sound advice in this thread.)Worst advice given so far. Running from your issues as a shy wallflower aren't going to be magical fixed. In fact, I imagine you only have to try HARDER to get noticed on a server with barely any roleplayers.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Rosekitten - 12-28-2016
(12-28-2016, 10:26 PM)Virella Wrote:Not really running when the only enjoyable rp I have had was from players who long left the game. Anything in the recent years has been a sorry excuse for rp when I did bother. Just because I would enjoy a smaller community myself where I could actually get to know people or know what was going on isn't what I call running. But hey to each their own. As I said.. I had rp and I got noticed. It just never lasted long due to people being fickle on how they wanted to play or rp from day to day. From anyone who has met me in game or back during the beta.. shy is hardly my issue.(12-28-2016, 10:17 PM)Rosekitten Wrote: My personally solution to the issue is looking to a new server. No the community won't be nearly as large but that is not always a bad thing either. Not sure if the OP will read new posts or not but a server change is an option if you really are that unhappy with where you are. (No I didn't read through the pages and pages to see other replies so sorry if it was a suggestion already. I'm sure there is a lot of sound advice in this thread.)Worst advice given so far. Running from your issues as a shy wallflower aren't going to be magical fixed. In fact, I imagine you only have to try HARDER to get noticed on a server with barely any roleplayers.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Kilieit - 12-28-2016
I'd seriously encourage you to actually read the rest of the thread, since a majority of the issues connected to this discussion have already been addressed.
But Balmung's a huge community. Like, immeasurably so. The RPC is a tiny percentage of it, the Quicksand is a tiny percentage of it, the people listed on the Google calendar are a tiny percentage of it (and there are overlaps).
Like... you have a problem with an RP FC on Balmung, you go and find one of the dozens on dozens of other FC's, linkshells, or informal groups to RP with. You don't even have to pay extra money or start your character over to do this. They're all already on the server; you just need to root them out. I know for facts that plenty other users of the RPC have advice on how to do this; some of it's been posted in this thread, too.
You have a problem with an RP FC on another server, and -- oh, oops, that's the server's whole RP community. In its entirety. And suddenly you need to reroll or transfer if you want to RP with someone else. Because every time you say "LF RP on (server)", people direct you back to the RP FC you dislike. And if you say "okay apart from them", they direct you to transfer. Because that's it.
I did small community RP for almost a decade (in WoW) and honestly cannot recommend it to people who think it's a solution for not having found what they want on Balmung yet.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Faye - 12-28-2016
(12-28-2016, 09:56 PM)Rosehip Wrote: I played back in 1.0, and returned very briefly for ARR, and I do actually remember something about Balmung being called a Legacy server. I remember someone told me you could only create a character there if you had played in 1.0, but tbh, I think that probably wasn't true.
It's a rediculous notion in any regard, but I DO remember hearing about it back then.
I do know that around the game's launch, with the RP community getting briefly split between Balmung and Gilgamesh, a lot of those going Gilgamesh were citing the Balmung was a Legacy server full of 1.0 players who would somehow ruin the experience for everyone else and some were even using that as a scare tactic to sway people to Gilgamesh, I dunno, maybe that got misinterpreted (or maybe there were a handful of genuine Legacy assholes).
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Rosekitten - 12-28-2016
As I said to each their own. What one may enjoy another may not. Maybe the dozens upon dozens is what I feel the issue is. But my original post was a suggestion. I did not say the op should go do this but it is another option she can add to her list if she wishes. My aim was not to derail the thread any or to have people tell me my thought on the matter was wrong because it was not their own.Â
Also you can scout out a server before you made said choice.
 For all the good times I have had on Balmung they are long in the past. Scout out a server if you want to make sure you fit in or will like it there, check the state of houses the market. Do a checklist if you are planning to transfer your character so it won't be a waste of money. Heck make connections before you do it so you know you are going to have rp if you are that worried about it.I'm not suggesting a server jump is for everyone either. Maybe if I didn't have the long list of terrible experiences and memories on the server I wouldn't mind sticking around but to pay the monthly fee and not enjoy myself is just silly.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - FreelanceWizard - 12-28-2016
(12-28-2016, 09:56 PM)Rosehip Wrote: I played back in 1.0, and returned very briefly for ARR, and I do actually remember something about Balmung being called a Legacy server. I remember someone told me you could only create a character there if you had played in 1.0, but tbh, I think that probably wasn't true.
It's a rediculous notion in any regard, but I DO remember hearing about it back then.
Balmung is a legacy server, which means that it contained characters from 1.x, and you couldn't server transfer from a legacy server to a non-legacy one (a restriction that has long since been removed). Non-legacy servers only allowed new characters to be created or transfers from other non-legacy servers.
As Faye points out, there was a kerfuffle back during the ARR launch about that, which is why Gilgamesh and to a lesser extent Behemoth ended up as the non-legacy RP servers. Ultimately, the concerns about the legacy players forming an impenetrable clique, clearing all content first, controlling the market, and dominating the RP scene turned out to be largely non-issues, mostly because there were simply so few legacy players, ARR was a lot different from 1.x, and they had to go through the MSQ just like everyone else.
All that aside, the point that Balmung is a giant community is very true. I've been playing since Beta 3, RPing the same character, and there's a wide variety of people on just the RPC alone that I've never actually run into in game, much less RPed with. Not since Virtue in CoH has there been a large game with such a large concentration of RPers on one server. If one corner of the community's not working out, by all means, try another one! Try randomly walking the wiki and making connections there, role-playing in different places, etc.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Rosehip - 12-28-2016
(12-28-2016, 10:49 PM)Faye Wrote:(12-28-2016, 09:56 PM)Rosehip Wrote: I played back in 1.0, and returned very briefly for ARR, and I do actually remember something about Balmung being called a Legacy server. I remember someone told me you could only create a character there if you had played in 1.0, but tbh, I think that probably wasn't true.
It's a rediculous notion in any regard, but I DO remember hearing about it back then.
I do know that around the game's launch, with the RP community getting briefly split between Balmung and Gilgamesh, a lot of those going Gilgamesh were citing the Balmung was a Legacy server full of 1.0 players who would somehow ruin the experience for everyone else and some were even using that as a scare tactic to sway people to Gilgamesh, I dunno, maybe that got misinterpreted (or maybe there were a handful of genuine Legacy assholes).
Both are possible, and definitely not mutually exclusive I think! I wasn't really involved enough in the community to get the full picture, but yeah, it was probably something like that.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Valence - 12-29-2016
(12-28-2016, 10:32 PM)Rosekitten Wrote:(12-28-2016, 10:26 PM)Virella Wrote:Not really running when the only enjoyable rp I have had was from players who long left the game. Anything in the recent years has been a sorry excuse for rp when I did bother. Just because I would enjoy a smaller community myself where I could actually get to know people or know what was going on isn't what I call running. But hey to each their own. As I said.. I had rp and I got noticed. It just never lasted long due to people being fickle on how they wanted to play or rp from day to day. From anyone who has met me in game or back during the beta.. shy is hardly my issue.(12-28-2016, 10:17 PM)Rosekitten Wrote: My personally solution to the issue is looking to a new server. No the community won't be nearly as large but that is not always a bad thing either. Not sure if the OP will read new posts or not but a server change is an option if you really are that unhappy with where you are. (No I didn't read through the pages and pages to see other replies so sorry if it was a suggestion already. I'm sure there is a lot of sound advice in this thread.)Worst advice given so far. Running from your issues as a shy wallflower aren't going to be magical fixed. In fact, I imagine you only have to try HARDER to get noticed on a server with barely any roleplayers.
Player RP fickleness and the fantasia obsessed are a bane in that game, no denying that. I think you just haven't had the luck to find a long lasting group of players with established characters is all.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - ArmachiA - 12-29-2016
Balmung's greatest strength is that it has so many rpers, it's also it's greatest weakness. I can count a number of games on fingers and toes that RPers wanted what Balmung had - to pick one rp server for everyone to go to. It never happened obviously, but watching Balmung is watching what people actually wanted and seeing the grass isn't always greener.
We can probably easily surmise 75% of all RPers are on Balmung. This means if you want to get some decent RP in and actually find RPers, the best place to go is Balmung - they're everywhere after all! Unfortunately the more RPers there are, the more likely you're going to get lost in a crowd. Most RP servers kind lived on the Supply and Demand theory - where there was always a low supply of RPers so people would be open to RP with whoever they ran passed. On Balmung the supply of RPers is really really high, so demand is lower. We can find exactly what we're looking for in our circles - whether it's Lore compliance, or NPC RP, or Warrior of Light RP, or Non-lore Compliance. Hell, you could probably find a Sailormoon RP group on this server if you looked hard enough.
This gives the perception of impenetrable cliques - because we all found what we wanted from whatever circle we're in so we aren't actively looking anymore. That's not to say we don't mind newcomers joining our circle, we just aren't advertising that we're looking. So if groups don't advertise, how does a new person know where to go? The sad part is, you don't. You either have to keep on trucking till you find someone willing to nibble on the line you're throwing out or make your own circle of newbies who also don't have any clue where to go.
Are their cliques on the server? Yeah. Are they impenetrable walls? Nah.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - ExAtomos - 12-29-2016
(12-29-2016, 09:25 AM)ArmachiA Wrote: Balmung's greatest strength is that it has so many rpers, it's also it's greatest weakness. I can count a number of games on fingers and toes that RPers wanted what Balmung had - to pick one rp server for everyone to go to. It never happened obviously, but watching Balmung is watching what people actually wanted and seeing the grass isn't always greener.
We can probably easily surmise 75% of all RPers are on Balmung. This means if you want to get some decent RP in and actually find RPers, the best place to go is Balmung - they're everywhere after all! Unfortunately the more RPers there are, the more likely you're going to get lost in a crowd. Most RP servers kind lived on the Supply and Demand theory - where there was always a low supply of RPers so people would be open to RP with whoever they ran passed. On Balmung the supply of RPers is really really high, so demand is lower. We can find exactly what we're looking for in our circles - whether it's Lore compliance, or NPC RP, or Warrior of Light RP, or Non-lore Compliance. Hell, you could probably find a Sailormoon RP group on this server if you looked hard enough.
This gives the perception of impenetrable cliques - because we all found what we wanted from whatever circle we're in so we aren't actively looking anymore. That's not to say we don't mind newcomers joining our circle, we just aren't advertising that we're looking. So if groups don't advertise, how does a new person know where to go? The sad part is, you don't. You either have to keep on trucking till you find someone willing to nibble on the line you're throwing out or make your own circle of newbies who also don't have any clue where to go.
Are their cliques on the server? Yeah. Are they impenetrable walls? Nah.
Yes to all this. There have been many threads posted about how hard it is to make it on Balmung, getting enough attention, finding good rp to join, etc. I always liken it to moving to a big city. The analogy is apt; Balmung is the most populated server hands down. Just like moving into a new city, you have to put forth a lot of effort to meet new people and find /your/ place, /your/ comfort zone. Folks aren't going to rush up to every new rper, excited to meet them... it would be like expecting everyone to stop and greet you on Wall Street during morning rush hour.
Breaking into Balmung takes a lot of time and effort, focused effort like looking at wikis and FC/LS info looking for the type of rp you may be interested in; not just half-assing it a few times, then moping about it. (I've spent months doing exactly this. lol.) I realized recently that I was spending nearly all of my game time leveling and grinding tomes and complaining that I got zero rp. It finally occurred to me, 'Well duh... you're not setting aside time to actually rp.' So now I'm trying to look at it like raiding; the only way I'll get better at it is to continuously throw myself in there, no matter how many times I fail and how frustrated I get. Eventually I will succeed and yay, good times!
On a side note: Pretty Guardians (You don't actually have to look hard. xD )
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Parvacake - 12-29-2016
This may be a more harsh, cruel way to look at things but since doing this I haven't had an issue with cliques or otherwise and it's generally led to more happiness in regards to my interactions both ICly and OOCly with others.
1) Approach
2) If a post is overlooked? Whisper the player(s) and see if they didn't just accidentally miss your post.
3) If both the post and the whisper are ignored? Walk away.
Walk.
Away.
That's it. Just walk the @&$% away because if they aren't answering you but are still posting/chatting with friends? They aren't interested in speaking to you or are too distracted to include another individual in the conversation. With that in mind it's better to just focus energy else where or try again at a better time.
Hell, sometimes it's not even a matter of 'omg cliques' and moreso attributed to other things like shyness, chat spam, being afk, overlooking a post because of focusing squarely on the posts around them, or just not feeling like being social outside of friends. Hell, I can't count how many times I've shyly shuffled to large events with friends just to stick by them and not really budge out to the rest of the conglomerate.
If making the effort didn't yield any results, put that effort towards something else. Hit up some other friends for RP or try another event.
Cliques can be frustrating, but they won't stop. They're both normal in MMOs and real life social structure. I've found it's far less fruitful to be angry and better to just shrug it off and move on.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Kailani - 12-29-2016
(12-28-2016, 10:26 PM)Virella Wrote:(12-28-2016, 10:17 PM)Rosekitten Wrote: My personally solution to the issue is looking to a new server. No the community won't be nearly as large but that is not always a bad thing either. Not sure if the OP will read new posts or not but a server change is an option if you really are that unhappy with where you are. (No I didn't read through the pages and pages to see other replies so sorry if it was a suggestion already. I'm sure there is a lot of sound advice in this thread.)
Worst advice given so far. Running from your issues as a shy wallflower aren't going to be magical fixed. In fact, I imagine you only have to try HARDER to get noticed on a server with barely any roleplayers.
Couldn't agree more with this. Running away, or however you want to label it, is a horrible idea.
 If anything, the online and RP world helps people with their social skills, dealing with things like rejection, social etiquette, how to treat people, how to deal with the less savory types, faking confidence until you have it and how to become a part of the world without giving up your individuality.  If you continue to bounce around just waiting for someone to notice you based on silly things like your characters hair color or the same outfit every other person is wearing, you'll never get anything done. The idea that there are "too many people to be noticed" is just illogical.
Just so another person says it..
- Stay put on the server and bask in the extreme diversity this world offers.Â
- Create a unique character using a character sheet if need be, and stick to it. Don't flip flop because of trends or what you think may be popular.
- Bite the bullet and approach people in game. Most times it takes just getting to know one person for things to take off.Â
- Write up a detailed, yet concise post in the Making Connections forums. If you're looking for something, let others know. No one can read minds.
- Create an interesting Wiki of your character. Give people something to work with, including RP hooks.
- Find just a few LS who seem to be of interest and join them. And then chat in them.
- Go to events and emote, even if it's to yourself.Â
- Find a FC, be confident and proactive within it, adding to their story. Don't be just another warm body, what's the point?
- Be friendly if someone talks to you about some OOC thing (quests, dungeons, questions). They may remember your name if they see you in town and be prompted to interact with you ICly as well.
- Be proactive in your game life. Don't be a whiner. No one wants to be around someone who complains about how hard life is when we're all in the same boat.
If you've done even half of the things listed above, I guarantee you'd be RP'ing a lot more than you are. Â
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Faye - 12-29-2016
It's kind of interesting to see both sides of the fantasia/namechange/retcon/alt-hopping deal. Here we have OP saying she's done it to try to make connections and find something that works, and then we have Rosekitten talking about how others doing it made it difficult for her to make a meaningful connections with anyone on the server. And both, on their opposite ends of the spectrum, feel as if they've had problems making connections due to others' attitudes/behaviors. I think it really drives home the point that most people aren't really going out of their way to (intentionally) exclude or brush off others and may be just as shy/lonely/friendly/kind as the people who feel wronged by them. There are plenty of times all of us go ignored or unnoticed, but it's really not productive to immediately assume it be borne of any sort of meanness, judgement, elitism or ill will on the other person's part.
RE: Community Full of Cliques - Aya - 12-29-2016
I had written a long post about my appreciation for Balmung, the RPC, and the RP community, but my web browser decided to trick me into deleting it. So... I'll just say that I find the grass a lot greener. A whole lot greener. I wouldn't change the way things have gone for anything. Its not perfect, but nothing in the real world is.
That's not to say that those who haven't enjoyed it are wrong, or that their experiences lack authority. Only that, on the whole, I'm incredibly happy about our community.Â
I don't want people reading the thread to think that everyone is unhappy with it
