(11-03-2015, 12:36 PM)Vyce Wrote: I've always considered myself a GOOD Scholar. Never not been able to carry even the narbiest BLK. It's probably the ability to use Adloquium as a trampoline...

But the other day I was running The Vault and something I can't explain was happening:

I couldn't keep up.

The tank was a WAR, and had great gear. My gear is optimized for mind with some spell speed, and usually I can get a tank to full health in a flash.

But...though she was taking regular sized pulls, my heals were not enough to maintain her. I wasn't sure if she was taking an abnormal amount of damage or if my heals were weak, but I realized early on that, huh...something isn't right here. I was having to keep physic on spam and never had her at 100%.

We made it all the way to the last fight, where the problems really started. With the inability to break from healing, I kept getting delayed on telegraphs. Even going back and forth from Adlo to Phys wasn't helping, and each time we wiped, the tank and deeps were telling me "You are doing (insert thing) wrong" so I'd try to change it, and still end up with a wipe. Both of us had great gear and nothing had changed on my end since the last time I ran it. After the 4th wipe, they kick-voted me.

Has anyone ever experienced something like that in a Primal or a dungeon? I can't for the life of me figure out what I was doing wrong.

(11-03-2015, 12:43 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: The only thing that comes to mind is that your weapon was either broken or you had the wrong one equipped. Consistent drop across all encounters and trash is weird.

Also, you might have been drunk.

(11-03-2015, 12:36 PM)Vyce Wrote: I've always considered myself a GOOD Scholar. Never not been able to carry even the narbiest BLK. It's probably the ability to use Adloquium as a trampoline...

But the other day I was running The Vault and something I can't explain was happening:

I couldn't keep up.

The tank was a WAR, and had great gear. My gear is optimized for mind with some spell speed, and usually I can get a tank to full health in a flash.

But...though she was taking regular sized pulls, my heals were not enough to maintain her. I wasn't sure if she was taking an abnormal amount of damage or if my heals were weak, but I realized early on that, huh...something isn't right here. I was having to keep physic on spam and never had her at 100%.

We made it all the way to the last fight, where the problems really started. With the inability to break from healing, I kept getting delayed on telegraphs. Even going back and forth from Adlo to Phys wasn't helping, and each time we wiped, the tank and deeps were telling me "You are doing (insert thing) wrong" so I'd try to change it, and still end up with a wipe. Both of us had great gear and nothing had changed on my end since the last time I ran it. After the 4th wipe, they kick-voted me.

Has anyone ever experienced something like that in a Primal or a dungeon? I can't for the life of me figure out what I was doing wrong.

[edit] It was more like the effectiveness of my heals was reduced, and the effectiveness of her defense of reduced, so it was constantly me spamming heals until I could get some Aetherflows going to jumpstart her health, which still seemed less effective.

(11-03-2015, 12:53 PM)Edda Wrote: Gear means little in The Vault if your tank is not properly using their CDs. I have seen it often enough, and with the large amount of damage dealt in The Vault, it is usually the fault of the tank for not taking trash pulls, let alone bosses, seriously. Many times I have queued in progress Vaults as a healer to hear "oh the healer sucked" only to find... Well, whether they did or did not is irrelevant, but the tank is never so stellar themselves in such scenarios.

If the tanks ARE using their CDs properly and you still have issues, you will need to adjust your play style to better deal with the huge difficulty spike The Vault has.

(11-03-2015, 12:44 PM)Gwen - Dinah Wrote:

(11-03-2015, 12:43 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: The only thing that comes to mind is that your weapon was either broken or you had the wrong one equipped. Consistent drop across all encounters and trash is weird.

Also, you might have been drunk.

Still sounds like the tank not managing CDs to me, but that  ^ could also be a thing!

(11-03-2015, 01:05 PM)Kage Wrote: Defiance is like 25% HP increase as well improving HP recovery via curing magic by 20% and reduces damage by like 25%.

(11-03-2015, 12:59 PM)Warren Castille Wrote:

(11-03-2015, 12:53 PM)Edda Wrote: Gear means little in The Vault if your tank is not properly using their CDs. I have seen it often enough, and with the large amount of damage dealt in The Vault, it is usually the fault of the tank for not taking trash pulls, let alone bosses, seriously. Many times I have queued in progress Vaults as a healer to hear "oh the healer sucked" only to find... Well, whether they did or did not is irrelevant, but the tank is never so stellar themselves in such scenarios.

If the tanks ARE using their CDs properly and you still have issues, you will need to adjust your play style to better deal with the huge difficulty spike The Vault has.

I don't doubt healers saying this, but the math doesn't line up. Paladin and Dark Knight have (can't speak to WAR) got tanky cooldowns on long timers, and if you're doing one pack at a time you're either spreading them out (so you're only buffed for 15~ seconds per pack) or you're dumping them all at once and being unprotected on the following pull. If your DPS is shredding things so quickly that you kill everything in those 15 seconds, you've definitely not got them up again for the next pull. If your DPS takes forever to kill anything, then those 15 seconds amount to even less mitigation. Maybe it's a WAR thing? I'm not sure how Defiance works compared to Grit or Shield Oath.

Still very strange, though.

(11-03-2015, 01:13 PM)Zekikikikiki Wrote:

(11-03-2015, 01:05 PM)Kage Wrote: Defiance is like 25% HP increase as well improving HP recovery via curing magic by 20% and reduces damage by like 25%.

Defiance doesn't offer any reduced damage like Grit or Shield Oath does. Which is why most people stay in Deliverance anyway for the damage except in some fights when you have to switch.

(11-03-2015, 01:14 PM)Edda Wrote: I've not leveled a tank class past 50 yet, so I'm no expert, but from my own experiences in The Vault, the best tanks stagger their CDs. That does not mean one is always up at every moment, but they are present enough to make a difference, believe me. A good tank that uses their CDS properly is far more than just a tank that takes less damage, as well, at least for me.
 When I do not have to baby a tank, I get to DPS instead, which allows trash pulls to drop much faster, thus lessening the importance of the duration of tank CDs.

Not all healers do this, however, and I'm not willing to give up my damage in order to see what that's like, so... No comment there. The Vault is the only HW dungeon where I've had to give up most of my damage to baby crappy tanks, though, since the damage can be pretty unreal. I just wanted my exp.

(11-03-2015, 01:17 PM)Kage Wrote:

(11-03-2015, 01:13 PM)Zekikikikiki Wrote:

(11-03-2015, 01:05 PM)Kage Wrote: Defiance is like 25% HP increase as well improving HP recovery via curing magic by 20% and reduces damage by like 25%.

Defiance doesn't offer any reduced damage like Grit or Shield Oath does. Which is why most people stay in Deliverance anyway for the damage except in some fights when you have to switch.

It reduces outgoing damage. However most warriors do a piss poor job of using their defensive cooldowns which means they do a piss poor job at tanking with Deliverance. Along with hate issues. Just because Defiance does not reduce damage taken by the warrior does not mean you should be staying in Deliverance.