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+--- Thread: A New Primal Approaches (/showthread.php?tid=11877)
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Viola - 06-03-2015
(06-03-2015, 10:55 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: I feel like I should throw my Garlean-experiment-gone-wrong in her direction. Only primal-ish tendencies. Franz just wants the aether. (Although IC, he's got no idea what exactly is wrong with him. Think.....ultima-weapon aether stealing, but without the abilities)
This sounds both amusing and mildly disturbing. I like this idea.
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Unnamed Mercenary - 06-04-2015
(06-03-2015, 11:15 PM)Memenu Wrote:(06-03-2015, 10:55 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: I feel like I should throw my Garlean-experiment-gone-wrong in her direction. Only primal-ish tendencies. Franz just wants the aether. (Although IC, he's got no idea what exactly is wrong with him. Think.....ultima-weapon aether stealing, but without the abilities)
This sounds both amusing and mildly disturbing. I like this idea.
He turns 1 in RP years soon! Still homesick and shoot-to-kill by his fellow Garleans.
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Cliodhna Eoghan - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 12:36 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: He turns 1 in RP years soon! Still homesick and shoot-to-kill by his fellow Garleans.only by the ones still loyal
to the op; your idea does sound rather amusing and i'm curious to see how you go about with it, either in some form or another
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Aduu Avagnar - 06-04-2015
(06-03-2015, 10:47 PM)Memenu Wrote:That is correct. A primal is unkillable. When they die their consciousness simply returns to the Aether. And then reform when summoned once more.(06-03-2015, 10:46 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Replace "primal" with "semi-deity of supernatural undying powers." The intent is the functionally the same.
...Wouldn't that mean she'd be unkillable?
(tldr reading comprehension issues)
A Primal is, as Warren said, a semi-deity of supernatural undying powers.
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Viola - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 04:15 AM)Nako Wrote:(06-03-2015, 10:47 PM)Memenu Wrote:That is correct. A primal is unkillable. When they die their consciousness simply returns to the Aether. And then reform when summoned once more.(06-03-2015, 10:46 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: Replace "primal" with "semi-deity of supernatural undying powers." The intent is the functionally the same.
...Wouldn't that mean she'd be unkillable?
(tldr reading comprehension issues)
A Primal is, as Warren said, a semi-deity of supernatural undying powers.
While the conciousness is undying, the body isn't.
However, I do understand the issues that are arising for calling her a Primal.
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Reppu - 06-04-2015
I have just oooonnnneeee question.
What happens when she is killed? Because, you know, she will be killed. Anyone with any knowledge of the adverse effects Primals cause to Hydaelyn is going to kill her, be it merciful or not.
Are your Lalafellin slaves going to immediately re-summon her, despite knowing the whole genocidal traits and 'om nom nom Hydaelyn'?
Honestly, you would not be the first, and will not be the last, Primal RPer. And I think, for the most part, none of them have ever answered what they will 'do' when they are hunted down. I think, actually, a lot of them avoided combat as much as possible with varying reasons as to why they would never be attacked.
In the end, Primals are antagonists. Even if they were summoned for benign reasons (read: quite often), they are still a threat to the planet. Even if you remove their ability to enslave individuals (Shiva might have not had this capacity, or her host just refused to utilize it), that does not mean you can remove the 'I actively devour the planet'.
That is a key primal trait, after all. Maybe if you go the Shiva route (although your backstory does not allow this, plus taking the unique trait of a Main Storyline character is kind of 'Ehhhhh'), but that is largely 'unknown territory'.
So, basically, what do you do when a band of adventurers is looming over you with weapons? Keep in mind, they are not in the wrong. You're definitely categorizing yourself as a villain, due to your nature, both conscious and subconsciously.
The aetherial signatures of a primal are not hard to catch. I mean, Enkidu was nothing special and he was pinpointed almost immediately on summon. He would definitely have been a 'primal' on the same scale of your lalafell.
So, you cannot rationally go undetected, either. So... yeah. What do you do?
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Viola - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 12:20 PM)Reppu Wrote: I have just oooonnnneeee question.
What happens when she is killed? Because, you know, she will be killed. Anyone with any knowledge of the adverse effects Primals cause to Hydaelyn is going to kill her, be it merciful or not.
Are your Lalafellin slaves going to immediately re-summon her, despite knowing the whole genocidal traits and 'om nom nom Hydaelyn'?
Honestly, you would not be the first, and will not be the last, Primal RPer. And I think, for the most part, none of them have ever answered what they will 'do' when they are hunted down. I think, actually, a lot of them avoided combat as much as possible with varying reasons as to why they would never be attacked.
In the end, Primals are antagonists. Even if they were summoned for benign reasons (read: quite often), they are still a threat to the planet. Even if you remove their ability to enslave individuals (Shiva might have not had this capacity, or her host just refused to utilize it), that does not mean you can remove the 'I actively devour the planet'.
That is a key primal trait, after all. Maybe if you go the Shiva route (although your backstory does not allow this, plus taking the unique trait of a Main Storyline character is kind of 'Ehhhhh'), but that is largely 'unknown territory'.
So, basically, what do you do when a band of adventurers is looming over you with weapons? Keep in mind, they are not in the wrong. You're definitely categorizing yourself as a villain, due to your nature, both conscious and subconsciously.
The aetherial signatures of a primal are not hard to catch. I mean, Enkidu was nothing special and he was pinpointed almost immediately on summon. He would definitely have been a 'primal' on the same scale of your lalafell.
So, you cannot rationally go undetected, either. So... yeah. What do you do?
1. What happens when she is killed?
Like most primals; She's sent back to the Aether. Death is obviously different for Primals, however I do not know if Primals, upon being summoned again, retain the memories of their "past lives".
2a. Are your Lalafellin slaves going to immediately re-summon her?
Since they are not Tempered, and the physical body she was given was one of her 'followers' (as the body is a vessel containing a very small amount of her "Primal Strength" and the fact that there's actual limitations to physical flesh) and they are still under Garlean oppression, it'd take some time for the resources required if they weren't already pre-stocked (which is doubtful).
2b. Even despite her genocidal traits and threat against Hydaelyn?
She's only genocidal towards those who harm Lalafell. This does not include basic things like name-calling and other such "petty things". While she dislikes Miqo'te and Elves, she's not going to be hostile towards them unless there's an actual reason.
3. So basically, what will she do when a band of adventurers is looming over Memenu with weapons?
This is actually a question I've thought about for a fair while. Chances are, such a fight will not only be inevitable, but will not be the only one. If it comes down to it, Memenu will fight. She'll say her piece and if their resolve is to attempt to send her back to the Aether still holds, she will defend herself like any "person" would.
I honestly am loving these questions, guys. It not only helping me [think], but these questions are very helpful for developing her more "realistically" lore-wise. I honestly thank you for asking them.
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Unnamed Mercenary - 06-04-2015
Question: Why do [hypotetical Lalafells] pray to her and not say, the Twelve, like most other common Eorzeans?
With most groups of intelligent beings in the game, there's a large devotion of followers who pray to summon a Primal.
We've seen this idea toyed with between Shiva and Enkidu, however. But in Shiva's case, Iceheart retained her own will. She "became" Shiva, gaining her power, but it wasn't the actual Saint Shiva being summoned to this realm, her own memories and experiences. How do you plan to handle this if a lalafellin host is being used as the vessel?
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Viola - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 05:35 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Question: Why do [hypothetical Lalafells] pray to her and not say, the Twelve, like most other common Eorzeans?
With most groups of intelligent beings in the game, there's a large devotion of followers who pray to summon a Primal.
We've seen this idea toyed with between Shiva and Enkidu, however. But in Shiva's case, Iceheart retained her own will. She "became" Shiva, gaining her power, but it wasn't the actual Saint Shiva being summoned to this realm, her own memories and experiences. How do you plan to handle this if a lalafellin host is being used as the vessel?
1a. Why does a small group pray to her and not say, the Twelve, like most other common Eorzeans?
Loss of faith, a traumatic trigger, etc. The same could be asked for say, The Lambs of Dalamud.
1b. And those Primals are also massive, so smaller groups for smaller primals?
2. How do you plan to handle this if a Lalafellin host is being used as the vessel?
She "gave up her body" would be the easiest explanation. A sacrifice for the "common good" so to speak. It's a cop-out, but it'd probably be easier than, say, "the cult kidnapped a random lalafell and used her as said sacrifice", or something. The body is a vessel, the flesh a limiter.
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Aduu Avagnar - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 05:49 PM)Memenu Wrote:to my knowledge the Lambs of Dalamud are either tempered by said moon, or Voidtouched, so bringing them up as an example may not work.(06-04-2015, 05:35 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Question: Why do [hypothetical Lalafells] pray to her and not say, the Twelve, like most other common Eorzeans?
With most groups of intelligent beings in the game, there's a large devotion of followers who pray to summon a Primal.
We've seen this idea toyed with between Shiva and Enkidu, however. But in Shiva's case, Iceheart retained her own will. She "became" Shiva, gaining her power, but it wasn't the actual Saint Shiva being summoned to this realm, her own memories and experiences. How do you plan to handle this if a lalafellin host is being used as the vessel?
1a. Why does a small group pray to her and not say, the Twelve, like most other common Eorzeans?
Loss of faith, a traumatic trigger, etc. The same could be asked for say, The Lambs of Dalamud.
1b. And those Primals are also massive, so smaller groups for smaller primals?
2. How do you plan to handle this if a Lalafellin host is being used as the vessel?
She "gave up her body" would be the easiest explanation. A sacrifice for the "common good" so to speak. It's a cop-out, but it'd probably be easier than, say, "the cult kidnapped a random lalafell and used her as said sacrifice", or something. The body is a vessel, the flesh a limiter.
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Viola - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 05:55 PM)Nako Wrote: to my knowledge the Lambs of Dalamud are either tempered by said moon, or Voidtouched, so bringing them up as an example may not work.
quick trip through google brings this
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Lambs_of_Dalamud
however, fair enough.
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Aduu Avagnar - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 06:01 PM)Memenu Wrote:I'm gunna go with Tempered by Bahamut then (ala the moon) as I believe thats a similar issue with Nael Van Darnus from 1.0 and Coil.(06-04-2015, 05:55 PM)Nako Wrote: to my knowledge the Lambs of Dalamud are either tempered by said moon, or Voidtouched, so bringing them up as an example may not work.
quick trip through google brings this
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Lambs_of_Dalamud
however, fair enough.
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Viola - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 06:07 PM)Nako Wrote: I'm gunna go with Tempered by Bahamut then (ala the moon) as I believe thats the same issue with Nael Van Darnus from 1.0 and Coil.
Maybe. I unno.
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Unnamed Mercenary - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 06:07 PM)Nako Wrote:(06-04-2015, 06:01 PM)Memenu Wrote:I'm gunna go with Tempered by Bahamut then (ala the moon) as I believe thats a similar issue with Nael Van Darnus from 1.0 and Coil.(06-04-2015, 05:55 PM)Nako Wrote: to my knowledge the Lambs of Dalamud are either tempered by said moon, or Voidtouched, so bringing them up as an example may not work.
quick trip through google brings this
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Lambs_of_Dalamud
however, fair enough.
Rather than Bahamut, it sounds like they were worshipping some other demonic entitty (my guess is Void-based) and simply thought that Dalamud was somehow linked to it. (Which turned out to be the Bahamut battery instead).
(06-04-2015, 05:49 PM)Memenu Wrote: 2. How do you plan to handle this if a Lalafellin host is being used as the vessel?
She "gave up her body" would be the easiest explanation. A sacrifice for the "common good" so to speak. It's a cop-out, but it'd probably be easier than, say, "the cult kidnapped a random lalafell and used her as said sacrifice", or something. The body is a vessel, the flesh a limiter.
Follow-up question: Is the host conscious? Or would the host become self-aware at the death of the primal? Or is the host, like Shiva, simply calling upon the power of the primal to become said primal?
RE: A New Primal Approaches - Viola - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 06:28 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Follow-up question: Is the host conscious? Or would the host become self-aware at the death of the primal? Or is the host, like Shiva, simply calling upon the power of the primal to become said primal?The host's very soul is no more; a tribute to allow Memenu to move freely. The lack of capability to Temper, let alone use her full powers being a side-effect of a mortal body.