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+--- Thread: Shameless Artistic License (/showthread.php?tid=651)
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Chveya - 09-15-2010
Siben Wrote:Which reminds me, how are the breasts on your models actually created? NURBS or Polygons...maybe some soft-body dynamics?
I'm an amateur nublet, so I'm gonna say -- I have no idea. XD
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Chveya - 09-15-2010
I'm going to add this one as an attachment (if the filesize works) and see if that's easier than spoiler-ing them.[attachment=0]
Have to save it at a lower quality than I like, but hey.
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Tadir - 09-15-2010
Sorry to ask this, but is it Poser? Because it's a great model and as a 3d artist, I'm sorry for this, you don't know the answers to very basic questions. Poser has long been making 3d artists look bad. That is a character that would take me 20 - 30 hours to make. I've been doing 3d animation for 13 years. 1-3 hours is absolutely absurd. I'm sorry if this come across as harsh, but this is my profession and livelyhood. Poser is a drawing aid, not a modeling program.
If it's not poser you have my sincere apologies.
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Zyanya - 09-15-2010
I think they came out really cool looking! I hope she doesn't have to fight monsters in that getup, though!
I was also wondering if you used poser.
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Chveya - 09-15-2010
Tadir Wrote:Sorry to ask this, but is it Poser? Because it's a great model and as a 3d artist, I'm sorry for this, you don't know the answers to very basic questions. Poser has long been making 3d artists look bad. That is a character that would take me 20 - 30 hours to make. I've been doing 3d animation for 13 years. 1-3 hours is absolutely absurd. I'm sorry if this come across as harsh, but this is my profession and livelyhood. Poser is a drawing aid, not a modeling program.
If it's not poser you have my sincere apologies.
I use Daz Studio, which is essentially Poser.
Tell me; how am I being made to look bad, by creating art which makes me happy? Is it "not real art"? Does it "take no talent"? Or are you somehow offended that I take models which are pre-created and sold, and use them for their intended purpose -- to create a digital, 3D image?
Please, do tell me what I'm doing wrong that so offends you. Nothing entertains me more than being told my art isn't up to someone else's standards. I don't make it for you, so tell me why I should care.
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Tadir - 09-16-2010
Ah, so we're getting into this argument. It's not your work. It's someone else's work that you are positioning and passing off as your 3d art. to reiterate my main point, it's not your work. Poser, and Daz Studio, were made as aids for drawing, for people who didn't have access to real models for reference in drawing. It has nothing to do with your "art" not being up to someone else's standards. Any attempt at 3d art I am a big fan of and am willing to give full and meaningful critiques. You're not doing art. You are positioning, to use your word, Barbies.
And it does give people who do this for a living a bad name. Something that I would spend 25 hours on you can buy and position and pass off as your work. Yes, it annoys me. It gives you a reputation for work you don't deserve.
And their "intended use" is as a drawing aid. That's the whole point of those programs...
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Gossamer - 09-16-2010
Ah, yeah, some clarification would be appropriate in the future. When I looked at the piece, I had been under the impression that you had modeled and textured the whole thing as well as posed, did lighting, and rendered.
It's still nice looking, but I totally had the wrong idea at how much of it was your work.
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Vareal - 09-16-2010
It's a poser model for Daz 3D (well, most Poser models can be used in Daz and vise versa) Daz3D is the free, less complicated version. And, it's not really worth getting into an argument, Poser is called Poser for a reason. But clarification for those who haven't used or seen the base models for poser or Daz3D would be good so it doesn't seem like you're trying to pass it off as your own.
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Chveya - 09-16-2010
Tadir Wrote:Ah, so we're getting into this argument. It's not your work. It's someone else's work that you are positioning and passing off as your 3d art. to reiterate my main point, it's not your work. Poser, and Daz Studio, were made as aids for drawing, for people who didn't have access to real models for reference in drawing. It has nothing to do with your "art" not being up to someone else's standards. Any attempt at 3d art I am a big fan of and am willing to give full and meaningful critiques. You're not doing art. You are positioning, to use your word, Barbies.
And it does give people who do this for a living a bad name. Something that I would spend 25 hours on you can buy and position and pass off as your work. Yes, it annoys me. It gives you a reputation for work you don't deserve.
And their "intended use" is as a drawing aid. That's the whole point of those programs...
Terribly sorry if you're feeling butt-hurt that I'm utilizing tools that are provided and sold for the program. But I do not agree with you that I am not creating art; until you can convince me that a photograph is not art, I will continue to abide by that belief. You are correct, I did not create the model or texture the items. But I put them together in a way that -I- chose, and I chose and arranged lighting, pose, camera angle, cropping, and postwork -- which is more work than any idiot with a camera (which includes me) puts into half of their photos.
Convince me that someone's photograph of a famous building or bridge or landmark isn't art, and you might have a leg to stand on. Until then, you're getting yourself tied in a knot because "omg people are doing what I do only they don't have to work at it".
It's a hobby. Tough shit if I don't put the amount of work you do into it.
Gossamer Wrote:Ah, yeah, some clarification would be appropriate in the future. When I looked at the piece, I had been under the impression that you had modeled and textured the whole thing as well as posed, did lighting, and rendered.
It's still nice looking, but I totally had the wrong idea at how much of it was your work.
I apologize if I gave you the wrong impression. I didn't think I was that vague, but I'll be more clear in the future. I assumed specifying that my set-up included choosing models and items, and not texturing and modeling (as well as specifying that I'd need to obtain resources, instead of create them) got the point across.
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Xzenivar - 09-16-2010
This is what someone in DAZ starts off with when they set out to make a picture with a female model. There are some variations, but they all stem from the Victoria Generation 4 (more commonly called V4) model. Open in a new tab or window to see it all, but she's symmetrical if you don't feel like it
![[Image: BaseV4.jpg]](http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/Ravrohan/BaseV4.jpg)
A lot of work goes into taking this, and making it into a picture like Chveya and hundreds upon hundreds of others do, including myself. This is not a simple matter, it does indeed take skill, a different set of skills than what another type of 3D artist may use when creating their own models from scratch.
It is very much our work, we may use a studio program which assists, and in the community buy, trade or give out props, texture mats etc, but much like a fashion designer, we take these separate pieces and endeavor to create something from our imagination. Once our model is finished, comes the work of a set designer and photographer, setting up just the right angle and working with the lighting to get just the effect desired. After this is done the artist then has the option of utilizing several filters to apply to the renders, and finally render them. Which can also take a lot of time in and of itself. Some artists then work in photoshop, GIMP, or whatever else floats their boat and does the postwork, adding extra effects, cleaning the image up or simply to work on the composition with something else. Some don't, others take their work and instead animate it.
Now, much if not all of this is the same as what someone could do with a program like 3DStudio Max to build the models from scratch, only in the case of a Daz/Poser user, they're not spending all that time creating it from scratch. They take a very early point in the creation process to begin from.
Art is art, and everything the artist does is their own work. This isn't plagiarized, and being jealous and petty over the artist taking a few hours as opposed to 30 is no reason to be rude and cast disparaging remarks. Her canvas was different, and no one asked what went into this. Unless someone here was a co creator of the original Poser/Daz studio programs, don't dictate what their purpose is, especially if you aren't using them. Those programs may have started off with that intent, but they became something else very quickly, as early as Generation 2 models.
Whats more, is that Daz Studio now supports and sets the groundwork for game developers, the current trend with most businesses, is to save time and money by taking something as a base, and building off it, rather than create everything from the dirt up.
This is all her work, and no one here has the right to say otherwise. She didn't claim to create everything from scratch, but has anyone bothered to find out what she has done?
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Tagyr - 09-16-2010
Art is subjective. Personally I don't think anything of Picasso is art, just meaningful scribbles to me. Nor could I appreciate most 'new age' sculptures that you see in cities that are just jumbles of shapes thrown together at different angles and constructed at a great size.
I do however understand the effort it took to create some of these. I may never understand the appeal of the end result of some of them, but it took someone the focus and vision to create something like that. And having that focus and vision to me is the form of an artist.
To claim that what Chveya has done is not a 'form' of art in itself is like accusing the easel of doing most of the work for a painter. At least to me anyway. Me being a 3D artist that likes doing environments who frequently employs addons made by other people that generate smoke/fire and other things.
I do think overall this is a case of wrong impressions and misunderstandings.
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Tadir - 09-16-2010
Okay
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Chveya - 09-16-2010
Tadir, this is very simple.
You have no right to judge ANYONE'S art, but your own. You have the right to decide if you like it, or not. You have the right to choose if you wish to look at it. You have the right to raise a stink if I paint a picture EXACTLY like the Mona Lisa and try to claim it's mine.
But you DO NOT have the right to say, "This isn't art", and moreso, you haven't got the right to say I'm giving anyone a bad name because I choose to make pretty pictures as a hobby in my spare time.
What one man considers graffiti and an eyesore, another considers art.
What one man considers yet another trite photograph of the Golden Gate Bridge, another considers art.
What one man considers a crappy photoshop job, another considers art.
None of those people MADE their medium. But they all created something from it that spoke of who they are, and neither you, nor I, nor f'in' God himself has the right to judge that. And if you -really- went to any sort of reputable art or design school, you'd have had that hammered into your head before your freshman year was over.
Now, as I said -- I may not have been clear enough. I'm used to people understanding immediately that I am using pre-created materials. I apologize to anyone who hasn't been exposed to these sorts of creations, or had anyone explain how they're made.
But I will never apologize to you -- ESPECIALLY not with your sort of attitude -- because I make something that makes me HAPPY. You will never have the right to tell me I am not creating art. Even if all I'm doing is setting a dandelion on fire and taking a Polaroid -- art isn't something anyone else can dictate. It comes from inside you, and you alone.
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Shamadconde - 09-16-2010
And the war continues.....
Re: Shameless Artistic License - Vareal - 09-16-2010
C'mon kids, seriously? Knock it off, Poser and Daz3D are in their own respective art classes, I mean without Poser we wouldn't have the Dead Fantasy series. What? you think that guy modeled that stuff? lol, no, he's just one hell of an animator. So knock it off guys, really, it's not worth it.