Hydaelyn Role-Players
Community Full of Cliques - Printable Version

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RE: Community Full of Cliques - Virella - 12-31-2016

I think these threads are very damaging to the community in truth. They scare off new roleplayers potentially, they make certain people look entitled. It is a complete mess on both sides of the fence. The thread name alone already made people wanting to go for the OP throats due to her statement of basically going 'You're all dicks, fuck you for not giving me RP, you damn cliques' attitude if you don't read into further. I know now that it wasn't her intention. And if your new to the RPC? You're just going to be given the impression the community is a huge clique. While it is not.

These type of threads are just... not helping. They set the RP community in a very bad daylight, while I'm certain most roleplayers on Balmung don't even use the RPC, let alone check it regularly.

I really think this could have been a good discussion (and it still is to some degree), if the OP didn't start pointing accusations from the start. If it was a "LF help finding RP" thread? Even a change in the title alone would have gotten a lot better and more positive replies. You reap what you sow.

Also, no, I have no experience using party finder to look for roleplay. I do however seen people use it to promote their events; what I do think is a cool thing to do, and from what I've heard its quite successful.

RE: Community Full of Cliques - Varinh - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 09:30 AM)Evaleigh Wrote: Question Has anyone ever used Party Finder to find RP contacts?  Did that work for you?

Ooo I've actually been wondering that myself, so I think I'll try tonight and post results :D

RE: Community Full of Cliques - Evaleigh - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 09:43 AM)Virella Wrote:  I do however seen people use it to promote their events; what I do think is a cool thing to do, and from what I've heard its quite successful.

I agree though it can be double-edged if it gets a lot of people you don't want (like non-Rpers) I do find it's an awesome way to be reminded about events.  There's also a few Event linkshells that post reminders.

RE: Community Full of Cliques - Kailani - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 08:03 AM)Evaleigh Wrote:  What I discovered is the following:

- If you have a green leaf on your head you're very likely to get ignored.

- 90% of the time if someone puts on their RP tag and goes and sit alone in a corner you end up with 10 people sitting alone and nobody interacting.

- If you approach people directly you will get a decent contact about 3 or 4 times out of 10. This number goes up if you send them a /tell first asking to RP before you just walk up.

- Approaching a group that's RPing is VERY likely to be ignored.

- Approaching an FC to try and get involved in their RP is about as effective as cold walkups.  FCs by their very nature are cliquish.  I actually had a VERY negative experience with a walkup to an FC where I was OOCly chewed out because their RP was "closed" in spite being in a public setting and all their emotes being done in /em.

My conclusion is that we have a very toxic and insular community on Balmung.

My heart seriously goes out for any new RPer or ones struggling to get established contacts.  

Just wanted to throw my input in as a brand new player to the game and the community. I have no negative or positive history here, and I think some people who seem jaded around here probably had some negative experiences and are letting that cloud their judgement. I could be wrong though.

- Having this silly leaf on my characters, I've actually received a few random messages welcoming me to the game and someone even mailed me 1000gil. (Never saw that in other MMO's I've played)

- I do agree with seeing a lot of people with a RP tag never interacting. But I just think of a high school dance with lots of shy people. Everyone who is uncertain of what they're supposed to do.. just sit around and wait. So much wasted time. But yes, I do wish more people with their RP tag up did show some sign of life when sitting in the same spot for hours.

- I've approached people IC and OOC and I've never been ignored (so far!). IC I ended up asking for directions in the city a few times, another time I ran up to someone and acted like I knew them and then admitted (all IC) that I had mistaken them for someone else. Just random, surprising things like that seem to catch people, even if it's for 15-20 minutes.
OOC.. I've approached a good amount of people based on what information is in their RP note (search info tag thing), and the ones who I really look into are the ones with a tiny URL link to their tumblr/wiki. I've been able to weed through the ones who are obviously in the game for ERP, and have found some pretty awesome characters to add to my contact list. And I made sure to whisper them and show appreciation for the creativity of the character. I figure if I get my name into their head, they may remember me when I come upon them IC sometime.

- Absolutely agree with the part about walking up to groups. But I again think about if someone randomly came up to myself and a group of friends at a party or some other social event, and we had no idea who they were, we most likely would just continue with what we were talking about and not welcome the person with open arms. That is just life.

- I've yet to worry about the FC thing and I've been too busy to worry about groups of people in the city. There are SO MANY FC on this server that for me it's important to find the right one instead of just finding random people to talk to. I will say that while I was out in the middle of no where, I saw a small group of people RP'ing who shared a FC tag and when I bowed to one of them, they all turned and bowed at me. It surprised me.

To add in, again as a brand new person to all of this, my personality isn't really the wall flower type. I played a MMO for the social aspect so what sense does it make for me to sit around and wait. So, I could say that being outgoing and proactive is on my side.

It is true.. no one owes anyone else time or RP. It's not a mean statement, it's just a fact. What methods work for me may not work for everyone, but I'd be willing to bet if someone took the time to really try and network, they would surprise themselves.

I love the community so far and to me it's far from toxic. Usually I hear that word when someone has had horrible personal experiences in the past and there's still resentment over it.

But the community as a whole (in my opinion) has been a great experience. Some people have such unique and fantastic characters, which they've been invested in for years. They are very passionate about what they have created and sometimes that causes them to be very selective about who they interact with. I was the exact same way in my past MMO after RP'ing there for many years with the same group of friends. It would make zero sense if someone changed who their character was, just because someone walked up to them with a cheerful disposition and expected to be entertained with RP.

So for any new people, don't be discouraged if you don't get the results you want within your first 72 hours of being in game. You signed up to the play the game in a RP community. So... go RP.

*Ignore typos please, absence of coffee

RE: Community Full of Cliques - Virella - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 09:56 AM)Evaleigh Wrote:
(12-31-2016, 09:43 AM)Virella Wrote:  I do however seen people use it to promote their events; what I do think is a cool thing to do, and from what I've heard its quite successful.

I agree though it can be double-edged if it gets a lot of people you don't want (like non-Rpers) I do find it's an awesome way to be reminded about events.  There's also a few Event linkshells that post reminders.
Well it beats the "Miqo'te femboi looking for daddy dom~ ♂+♂ only ♥‿♥!!" in party finder. I don't think I've heard any PvE/PvP people complain about legit RP events being advertised. Besides, think everyone has resigned to the idea that RP/PvP/PvE folk live happily together anyhow. There's a few divas on certain sides, but eh, I really don't think people care.

Also as much as I love those Event Linkshells, and I do think they are a great help for certain people, you can't expect people to join those. Also, limited LS slots and limited people allowed in a LS. So no, I don't think using party finder to promote RP events is a bad thing. It also isn't against the rules either, so that isn't an issue either thankfully!

RE: Community Full of Cliques - Kilieit - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 09:56 AM)Evaleigh Wrote:
(12-31-2016, 09:43 AM)Virella Wrote:  I do however seen people use it to promote their events; what I do think is a cool thing to do, and from what I've heard its quite successful.

I agree though it can be double-edged if it gets a lot of people you don't want (like non-Rpers) I do find it's an awesome way to be reminded about events.  There's also a few Event linkshells that post reminders.

Emphasis mine.

Because I'm from a small RP community, and used to run events, and the only place there was to promote these events was the general realm forums or chat channels that were shared with PvE and PvP-focussed players, that meant there were always people at events who could be described as "non-RPers".

Know who those players are, in my decade-long experience, if you actually talk to them instead of dismissing them out of hand because they don't know the lore very well, were spamming fireworks off to the side instead of speaking, or because they've got a PvE guild tag?

People who haven't been introduced to RP yet but are obviously open to try because they're at an event. People who always wanted to try RP but aren't confident and wanted to watch without joining in to see if it's something they think they can do. People who tried to RP in the past but had a bad experience and swore off it but are considering seeing if the community's improved. People who thought it looked fun and wanted to join in, without doing any back-reading in terms of lore, not because of any maliciousness or laziness but simply because they just plain old didn't realise it was as involved as it is. And so on.

Griefers - who deliberately disrupt, often by spamming the chat with offensive filth and deliberately positioning themselves to ruin screenshots - are another thing, but call them what they are. Especially when you're positing "no one is obligated to roleplay with you" as a nasty statement of a toxic community and not what it is, which is a basic plea for empathy with others, whether they're ""popular"" or not (read this post and this post of mine if you don't understand where I'm coming from).

--

There's a repeated failure here to identify the difference between "someone doing something I don't like because they're being deliberately malicious" and "someone doing something I don't like because of circumstances that are nothing to do with me or them".

That's what's toxic, by definition, because it creates conflict and resentment where there need not be any.

It's a paradigm that encourages resentment of people - as if they're doing things on purpose out of spite - for stuff they can't help, stuff they didn't realise was a problem, and stuff they can't reasonably be expected to fix.

You don't need to change the community to enjoy it. You need to change the paradigm you view it through.

I promised myself I wouldn't post in this thread again after Virella's post at the top of the page but look where it got me gods I'm doomed to endless forum argument purgatory

RE: Community Full of Cliques - Kailani - 12-31-2016

One more thing to add in..

I think the people who are looking for very specific types of RP may have a much harder time. In past RP experiences in another game, there were people who were looking for a lot more than just normal, organic RP interactions. Players were already shopping for a romantic or sexual relationship for their character from the time it spawned in game. And I've seen similar things here, as Virella just pointed out, with the tags who shun anyone who doesn't fit in their carnal search for purely ERP.

If someone is actually looking for RP, and aren't JUST looking for their match.com...match, it shouldn't matter what sexuality a character is or what gender they are. If a heterosexual female character is ONLY trying to RP with heterosexual male characters because they want romantic RP that badly, you just cut your potential RP list way down, and really only have yourself to blame. Again, not stating anyone in this thread does this, but it's really common.

Being open to any RP when you're new in a community is super important. Networking is key.

RE: Community Full of Cliques - ExAtomos - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 10:08 AM)Kailani Wrote:
(12-31-2016, 08:03 AM)Evaleigh Wrote:  What I discovered is the following:

- If you have a green leaf on your head you're very likely to get ignored.

- 90% of the time if someone puts on their RP tag and goes and sit alone in a corner you end up with 10 people sitting alone and nobody interacting.

- If you approach people directly you will get a decent contact about 3 or 4 times out of 10. This number goes up if you send them a /tell first asking to RP before you just walk up.

- Approaching a group that's RPing is VERY likely to be ignored.

- Approaching an FC to try and get involved in their RP is about as effective as cold walkups.  FCs by their very nature are cliquish.  I actually had a VERY negative experience with a walkup to an FC where I was OOCly chewed out because their RP was "closed" in spite being in a public setting and all their emotes being done in /em.

My conclusion is that we have a very toxic and insular community on Balmung.

My heart seriously goes out for any new RPer or ones struggling to get established contacts.  

Just wanted to throw my input in as a brand new player to the game and the community. I have no negative or positive history here, and I think some people who seem jaded around here probably had some negative experiences and are letting that cloud their judgement. I could be wrong though.

I think this is really important. This is the difference between someone who has preconceived expectations regarding the rp community (and frankly may be unconsciously looking for negatives to check them off a mental list of sorts) and someone who is actually new here.

It goes back to what we've all been saying, you're gonna have to put yourself out there AND it's wise to pick your battles (like in real life socializing, don't go up and interrupt an in-depth convo, do go up and talk to the shy people, it's hard to hold a convo in a crowded room, and of course know that you may be rebuffed sometimes.)

While I think the title of the thread is unfortunate, there are a lot of helpful insights in here that many rpers can learn from.

What I've learned in my time on Balmung... damn, we have a lot of people with social anxiety.

RE: Community Full of Cliques - Valence - 12-31-2016

I started roleplaying like everyone without any contacts and had to go through the RPC connections thread and find a good FC (the two best tools in my opinion). That's where I found a handful of my long lasting contacts (especially the FC though, the connection thread is more often a miss than a hit since most people disappear after a week or two).

It was already demanding enough and time investing that I don't even want to imagine the nightmare when going blind through the most inefficient mediums like huge events and public RP in public places.

RE: Community Full of Cliques - Rosekitten - 12-31-2016

I backed off of this thread but seeing a few people seemingly go back and forth.. It's just in timing and who you run into. My personal experiences with the server .. yes I would agree it is quite Toxic. When I first joined the game I would have told you otherwise but in later years that is just how I feel or have been treated by the community bits I have run into.

Personally this thread isn't even on topic anymore as it was suppose to help the OP and instead of taking the various thoughts and opinions in stride we have people going back and forth saying that this person is wrong because this this and this. Even though I do not enjoy the community on the server now doesn't mean someone else cannot get the experience they are after on Balmung. I never once said I hated the server or no one should go there. I've rather enjoyed seeing both sides being discussed on the good and bad of the server. 

I like to keep in mind that not all tricks and hints will always work for another. Sometimes people get really unlucky or just need that extra push or aid. Instead of listing all the things the OP should or shouldn't do there was the option to message them and invite them to a FC gathering or a open house or even just in a random meet and greet out in the world. I use to do that a lot especially for new rp'ers/members to the game or people who posted they were having trouble locating rp. I may have only gotten a little bit of a interaction myself but I helped build someone else's spirit up or helped them refine their character so they could better locate what they are looking for instead of passing on the same advice everyone else has already said time and time again. 

(sorry if this came out a little harsh or angry like.. I promise I'm just waking up and my little ones are being a handful ^^; )

RE: Community Full of Cliques - ArmachiA - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 09:30 AM)Evaleigh Wrote: There's no need to get defensive over the semantics I'm not attacking an individual or even you for that matter.  

Did... did I say you were attacking me personally? I was attacking your argument, I wasn't offended.

And I never once said what you were doing was "wrong" what I said was see it from the other side and offer explanations as to what's probably happening. There's two sides to every story, and there's probably a logical explanation to most of those things beyond "No one wants me to RP with them"

If we continue the narrative that people are doing this maliciously, it's only doing the community a disservice. There are reasons people are doing what their doing that isn't "Ew. Newbies" like... 95% of the time.

Are there assholes in the community? HELL YES. There are assholes in EVERY community, but that's usually an outlier.

RE: Community Full of Cliques - Faye - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 09:00 AM)Virella Wrote:
(12-31-2016, 08:03 AM)Evaleigh Wrote: <snip>
I don't get this. I never got ignored.

Gonna have to second this. I've rolled up in the Quicksand on several alts and had no problem finding RP. Most weren't super secret alts or anything, but it wasn't common knowledge or visibly obvious that they were my characters, and I still got walk-ups and /tells--usually from people who don't even know me as Faye, regardless.

On probably my least known alt (the only one I've played who you can't find in my signature below because I've been too lazy to add her), I've had no problem finding RP. I will note that because I'm an awkward wallflower, I have not initiated any interactions; it was all other role-players being kind and social. That being said, yeah, of course sometimes I stand there for hours on end with no interaction, but that's what happens when you don't approach others or emote directly at them, not any sort of "toxicity." This character is only level 25, for whatever that's worth, and I RPed her sporadically as I was leveling her.

I was approved to the first FC I took an interest in with her and they were super nice and welcoming. It didn't turn out to be exactly what I was looking for and we recently split amicably, but it was not a negative experience in any way. I took her to events hosted by other FC's where patrons and staff made small talk with her. I took her to the Quicksand numerous times where I've received dozens of walkups--everything from your typical folks just perusing for ERP to someone hiring her to make weapons for him in some shady business for prolonged interaction.

You absolutely do not need connections or a reputation to find RP (but it helps) and you have to start building these things somewhere regardless--we all started from square one in the beginning, believe it or not.

RE: Community Full of Cliques - Evaleigh - 12-31-2016

How long do you stand around Faye?  Maybe that's the factor that makes the experiences different.  I just think it's rather rude of us as a group to dismiss or even be hostile toward those expressing their frustrations of being ignored just because others have a different experience.  It seems to me a little belittling and dehumanizing which is the off-putting sentiment I was trying to express earlier.

I think the veteran roleplayers could as a whole be more accepting and understanding of this frustration instead of dismissing it as "well I don't have a problem therefore it must be -you-" attitude.

I've had characters that get readily approached and I've had characters that get ignored.  I'll tell you this when it comes to the Quicksand... race/gender seems to matter a great deal along with 'cute' factor.

RE: Community Full of Cliques - Faye - 12-31-2016

(12-31-2016, 01:05 PM)Evaleigh Wrote: How long do you stand around Faye?  Maybe that's the factor that makes the experiences different.

Depends, I'm usually tabbed out doing other stuff while I park my character there though, so often it can be several hours I have her standing there. Unless the Quicksand is particularly dead, I usually get approached within the first hour or so. Throwing out a directionless emote or standing near someone else flying their RP flag usually speeds the process along.

RE: Community Full of Cliques - Oyuu - 12-31-2016

Finally chipping in on this, welp. I don't think people voicing their different experiences is meant to be "dehumanising or belittling" rather a "hey, perhaps try something like this or try to think like this way, there's still hope!" 

Because yeah, it is down to personal experience. You may be unlucky and interact with every assholeish RPer/group ever, or just find your contacts get you nowhere. It happens to everyone at some point, and if you're brand new this can be very daunting. Everyone is different, and will react to being ignored or unsuccessful in different ways. Others will take it as a challenge, and others will go "welp, guess I'm just not good enough." As someone who started off as the latter, then finally got success after getting off my little wallflower butt and bought a pretty Roe a drink - I ended up joining an FC hours later and the rest was history.

Even the most experienced RPers who have been in this community a long time have felt so alone and that no one wants to interact with them. Heck, I still feel like this sometimes! But the truth is, you're not. No one is alone on Balmung, you just haven't found the right connections yet. There is a home for your character somewhere. Just keep trucking along, try new things and don't let it get you down. Send that "Hey, do you mind if I walk up to you?" tell, and see where it takes you. I'm sorry to whoever is feeling alone and like they don't belong, but keep trying, it does get better. Feel free to ping me if you want to RP or just chat.