(11-26-2016, 04:04 AM)Virella Wrote:(11-26-2016, 03:46 AM)Rahferu Wrote: I wasn't saying that it was specifically a dark knight either, just someone doing things very much like a dark knight does...and I provided a few totally legitimate reasons why that could've been. We know for a fact that there were individuals using dark arts of some effect BEFORE ishgard's dark knights timelinewise.ÂWhere does it say we had people using it before the Ishgardian Dark Knights, let alone people who were found outside Ishgard did? I've done the questline, I'm pretty familiar with Ishgardian lore, but I really can't find any of it. We only know the Dark Knight order eventually got the Dark Arts, much later then the first Dark Knight. That still doesn't however state there were people outside Ishgard who had earlier access to this, or to this at all to begin with.
I actually see quite a few similarities between Warrior lore and DRK lore, too...but take that as you will. It's a matter of opinion.
Yes, Warrior and Dark Knight do touch upon emotions, but in a different way, but Dark Knights deal with the Dark Arts, whereas Warriors have their Inner Beast to deal with. Yes it is quite similar, but not exactly the same! I believe, if I'm correct, Warriors have a need to constantly seek out bigger threats to hone their skills for their Inner Beast, whereas for Dark Knights its purely focused on well, religious corruption of the Halonic Church (who knows what they may do come Stormblood though!)
Anyhow, I'm still really interested how you came to the conclusion the Dark Arts is used by other than/before Dark Knights came to be. Would you mind sharing me this information? Because I might have missed something then. I, and others have simply told you 'Well, lore states x', but if you can find lore, and not speculation, on it what myself and others might have missed? Awesome, give it to us, I'm very much interested in learning more lore! Not speculation.
I meant the term "dark arts" in a general manner--i.e., the use of taboo magic or abilities that otherwise pertain to things or motives that might be considered "dark" or "evil." NOT a reference to the actual dark knight job action/ability.Â
(I wasn't really sure how to word that, but you probably get what I mean. And people using general dark arts of some effect did NOT start in Ishgard. There were people using questionable/evil magic from waaay early on...like the Ascians, for example. I would classify a good deal of their methods and magic as "dark arts" because iirc there are instances where they summon voidsent and whatnot.)
I think the term is used a few times in the DRK questline and probably in other questlines too--I recall in the DRK questline too, the broad term of "dark arts" is used, and it probably isn't referencing the job ability (given the context and non-capitalized letters):
And again, in the posts seen here from the lorebook, I don't see anything saying that there couldn't possibly have been someone adopting practices akin to a Dark Knight's outside of what it says--but it doesn't say for sure that there WAS, either. But because it doesn't seem to flat out say yes or no to this theory either way, leaves room for interpretation. Â
We have lore about the dark knights themselves, yes. But! Given many of the aspects about the dark knight (such as the desire to protect things, the whole "darkside" thing, etc), I'm inclined to wonder if something like it wasn't around at another time in some form.Â
I personally would be surprised that the potential or underlying ability for a dark knight's existence in some form didn't at all exist BEFORE people figured out how to control it and name it and such. (To me, that's kind of like Christoper Columbus "discovering" the americas...he didn't really. there were already people living there and doing their thing, etc etc.)
The Dark Knights combated the church with their abilities, yes. BUT WHERE did those abilities COME FROM? How did they get these abilities? There had to have been some kind of source, one would think. That kind of knowledge doesn't just grow on trees, after all.
Maybe I just think outside the box too much, idk. The lore doesn't cover enough imo.
Also, I am trying to explain WHY I think that could've been a possibility, given other things we do know for sure about the world of FFXIV.Â
I am not claiming that I am correct per se--rather, I am stating that the lorebook doesn't seem to say YES or NO to my theory definitively. I'm merely using evidence to support my views.
The lorebook is also a supplemental guide as I understand it, and it has SOME information to fill in some of the blanks and answer some of the questions. It's not the entire list of answers to the test, so to speak. There's plenty of stuff the lorebook alone doesn't tell us.
I completely understand the desire to adhere to the book, but when the book doesn't say NO THAT DIDN'T (OR COULDN'T POSSIBLY) HAPPEN, many people are going to interpret it either way.
