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Lotsa lore questions - Printable Version

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RE: Lotsa lore questions - Lament - 11-18-2013

I'm not implying the world is small. On the contrary, I said worlds that small wouldn't even have enough gravity (for the planet to sustain life). I'm saying the game implies the world is small - due to technical restrictions more than anything.

RE: Lotsa lore questions - LiadansWhisper - 11-18-2013

(11-18-2013, 07:08 PM)Lament Wrote:
(11-18-2013, 02:29 AM)Naunet Wrote: Keep in mind that not only are the zones significantly larger than they appear in game (if they weren't, it would make no sense), but also that most of the zones don't even line up border-for-border. Often when you pass into another zone, you're quite obviously skipping a pretty large chunk of area.

Through mining and botany it's actually possible to estimate the size of each area and they are tiny. The gate to Ul'dah is only 360 yalms/yards (a fifth of a mile) from the ore in Copperbell Mines, which means the entire Western Thanalan area would span maybe just above a mile diagonally. D|

I don't believe that these references should be taken as in-character.  Those distances are set up for an OOC profession - that being mining or botany.  It's as believable as my 5'2" Hyur being able to reel in a 14 foot long fish by herself with a tiny little wooden fishing pole.

RE: Lotsa lore questions - Lament - 11-18-2013

Please read my other posts.

RE: Lotsa lore questions - C'kayah Polaali - 11-18-2013

(11-18-2013, 09:50 PM)Lament Wrote: I'm not implying the world is small. On the contrary, I said worlds that small wouldn't even have enough gravity (for the planet to sustain life). I'm saying the game implies the world is small - due to technical restrictions more than anything.

Exactly. I think part of it is probably perceptual, too: the few large world MMOs I've played in have suffered under constant complaints about travel times and empty areas, and I can't think of any that haven't made changes to - at the very least - reduce the perceived size of the game world.

I see it all as metaphoric, really. The fast day-night cycle doesn't mean that days are really 15 minutes long, it's just a metaphor for days going by. Likewise, the small world doesn't mean that the world really is that small, it's just a metaphor for the "actual" world our characters live in.

RE: Lotsa lore questions - Zope - 11-18-2013

I love the discussion going!

So what ya'll seem to be concluding about the distance is that what's provided in-game can't make much sense. Would ya'll find it reasonable to agree that someone traveling from say... Limsa to Ul'dah, making frequent stops and such took a few weeks?

RE: Lotsa lore questions - Naunet - 11-18-2013

(11-18-2013, 11:01 PM)C Wrote: I see it all as metaphoric, really. The fast day-night cycle doesn't mean that days are really 15 minutes long, it's just a metaphor for days going by. Likewise, the small world doesn't mean that the world really is that small, it's just a metaphor for the "actual" world our characters live in.

I'd like to add onto this and say one more thing:

Eastern Thanalan does not get rain as much as it does in-game. If it did, it would quite literally not be a desert anymore. So can folk please stop making IC comments about how it rains constantly in Drybone? Pretend it's the rainy season now, sure, but a month or so down the line, it should be dry as a... well, a bone.

(11-18-2013, 11:21 PM)Zope Wrote: I love the discussion going!

So what ya'll seem to be concluding about the distance is that what's provided in-game can't make much sense. Would ya'll find it reasonable to agree that someone traveling from say... Limsa to Ul'dah, making frequent stops and such took a few weeks?

Certainly reasonable, yes.

RE: Lotsa lore questions - Jomoru - 11-19-2013

I thought Than was clearly the lush areas near a desert where you might feed people and such

RE: Lotsa lore questions - Naunet - 11-19-2013

(11-19-2013, 12:48 AM)Jomoru Wrote: I thought Than was clearly the lush areas near a desert where you might feed people and such

It's pretty obviously an Arizona/New Mexico mirror based on the types of plants you see around and the degree of vegetation. The soil looks far too hard packed in some places, too sandy in others to support agriculture. That's why mining is the biggest economy there. La Noscea's where the ag stuff thrives.

RE: Lotsa lore questions - LiadansWhisper - 11-19-2013

(11-18-2013, 11:45 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(11-18-2013, 11:01 PM)C Wrote: I see it all as metaphoric, really. The fast day-night cycle doesn't mean that days are really 15 minutes long, it's just a metaphor for days going by. Likewise, the small world doesn't mean that the world really is that small, it's just a metaphor for the "actual" world our characters live in.

I'd like to add onto this and say one more thing:

Eastern Thanalan does not get rain as much as it does in-game. If it did, it would quite literally not be a desert anymore. So can folk please stop making IC comments about how it rains constantly in Drybone? Pretend it's the rainy season now, sure, but a month or so down the line, it should be dry as a... well, a bone.

Actually...there was something floating around (not sure if I got it from the THM questline or somehwere else) about how, given the amount of precipitation Thanalan gets, it shouldn't be a desert.  That it is seems to be possibly related to the drain Thaumaturgy/Black Magic has on the Aether. Meaning that it might actually rain that much...though I wish it didn't. It's so jarring. >.<

RE: Lotsa lore questions - LiadansWhisper - 11-19-2013

(11-18-2013, 10:11 PM)Lament Wrote: Please read my other posts.

I did read your other posts.  I was just responding to that one in particular since you appeared to be saying in that post that the world is that small.

RE: Lotsa lore questions - Naunet - 11-19-2013

(11-19-2013, 01:39 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Actually...there was something floating around (not sure if I got it from the THM questline or somehwere else) about how, given the amount of precipitation Thanalan gets, it shouldn't be a desert.  That it is seems to be possibly related to the drain Thaumaturgy/Black Magic has on the Aether.  Meaning that it might actually rain that much...though I wish it didn't.  It's so jarring.  >.<

I'd love to see a source! :o

That said, I'm more liable to believe it's just another moment of game mechanics trumping lore (just like the sizes of the zones - though really, Squee, couldn't you have made them just a teensy tiny bit bigger? They're so cramped!)

RE: Lotsa lore questions - LiadansWhisper - 11-19-2013

(11-19-2013, 01:59 AM)Naunet Wrote:
(11-19-2013, 01:39 AM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: Actually...there was something floating around (not sure if I got it from the THM questline or somehwere else) about how, given the amount of precipitation Thanalan gets, it shouldn't be a desert.  That it is seems to be possibly related to the drain Thaumaturgy/Black Magic has on the Aether.  Meaning that it might actually rain that much...though I wish it didn't.  It's so jarring.  >.<

I'd love to see a source! :o

Tomorrow, when I get on, I'll go hunting through cutscenes and see if I can find the information.  It was something like...that Black Magic drains the land or had drained the land at some point.  Then again, it might also come from the White Mage quest.  I'LL GO LOOK.

Quote:That said, I'm more liable to believe it's just another moment of game mechanics trumping lore (just like the sizes of the zones - though really, Squee, couldn't you have made them just a teensy tiny bit bigger? They're so cramped!)

Ya, that seems the most logical explanation, sadly.  I, too, am really disappointed with how tiny the zones are.  I would like them to be bigger (although they are MUCH bigger than the way the SWTOR zones felt).  I also am irked by being able to see like, shorelines and such that I can't get to.  Frustrated  I WANNA SWIM OVER THERE.  Sad

RE: Lotsa lore questions - LandStander - 11-19-2013

The zones look a lot nicer than they did in 1.0, but they are like half the size ; ;. I liked all the dilapidated cabins and small towns they had and will miss them ; ;.

RE: Lotsa lore questions - TheLastCandle - 11-19-2013

(11-19-2013, 03:08 AM)LandStander Wrote: The zones look a lot nicer than they did in 1.0, but they are like half the size ; ;. I liked all the dilapidated cabins and small towns they had and will miss them ; ;.

I do, too, in a way. At the same time, though, as large as they were, many areas were the epitome of lazy game design.

Take the Shroud 1.0, for instance: one gigantic, labyrinthine forest - where everything looks the same. Occasionally you'll find a twist or turn where you have to spiral up a hill and cross a bridge. Those all looked the same, too.

It was on the same level as Dragon Age II's caverns/dungeons that were all copy/pastes of the same layout. What I do miss, though, is the mostly seamless game world. Being able to see people running around Lower LL from the upper levels and such.

RE: Lotsa lore questions - Jomoru - 11-19-2013

(11-19-2013, 01:03 AM)Naunet Wrote:
(11-19-2013, 12:48 AM)Jomoru Wrote: I thought Than was clearly the lush areas near a desert where you might feed people and such

It's pretty obviously an Arizona/New Mexico mirror based on the types of plants you see around and the degree of vegetation. The soil looks far too hard packed in some places, too sandy in others to support agriculture. That's why mining is the biggest economy there. La Noscea's where the ag stuff thrives.

Then explain the royal plantation at 22 26 in central Than. I'm pretty sure than is supposed to be more like the Middle east enviroment wise, with huge expanses of desert but lush areas where people build cities.