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+--- Thread: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar (/showthread.php?tid=5170)
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - Rahal - 10-20-2013
Go full Mind for Scholar. Anything else doesn't seem worth it IMHO.
If you are soloing then the Damage loss from having less Int isn't a huge hit if you switch to Summoner for soloing. That or you could just go Arcanist if soloing and switch on Cleric Stance.
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - Nimarhie - 10-20-2013
I'm confused... I was told a long time ago to put points in INT for increased spell damage. So now were putting them in MND (mana pool), and using Cleric Stance? Is that just for the 10% boost?
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - Naunet - 10-20-2013
MND is +healing; PIE (piety) is +mana.
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - LimeOfDoom - 10-20-2013
(10-20-2013, 11:27 AM)Nimarhie Wrote: I'm confused... I was told a long time ago to put points in INT for increased spell damage. So now were putting them in MND (mana pool), and using Cleric Stance? Is that just for the 10% boost?For those who are planning to play Scholars, yes.
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - LeCard - 10-20-2013
As a SCH player who is about to do the last push to 50 this is what I have found.
1) MND over INT( i did 50/50 but will probably by the points reset item when I can)
2) Use cleric stance for what it was intended. with all your stats in MND when you use it for solo play you have really nice DMG and a little personal healer Fairy
3) if you want SMN go for it, but only for solo/farming stuff since your int score will be alot lower. (leather/webs/fleece) the pet tanking lets you grab more mobs at once. also big note on the idea of just going it ACN, you still get a BIG stats boost from the soul stones. NEVER go it a class when you could be going it a JOB! just try this, record you stats at your base class, then equip you soul stone(any job) and record your new stats......notice a big jump? that is precisely why you should never try to Class it when you could job it.
4) CRIT rate is supper important! remember the main aspect of SCH is not curing a large amount of HP in a one shot heal, SCH is a Heal-n-shield style healer and when you crit that heal to some crazy high number you also NEGATE that crazy high number of DMG. SCH should be a boring to play healing class if your doing it right because the team will see hp bars move almost not at all.Â
5) Aether flow and you: The ideal use of Aether flow as I have found it is thus, Hold on activating Aether flow until your mp is down 1/4 the way. then hold off on useing the drain skill untill you are down at least another 1/4 to 50% mp. at 25% mp you should be able to use the second shot of the drain skill and follow it up with reactivating Aetherflow instantly getting you back to aprx. 79% mp. rinse and repeat from here 1 drain is at 50% second at 25% Aetherflow ASAP.
Theorys)
8-16-24 man parties and SCH
Here SCH will be the TANKs personal healer while the WHM is the party healer. by focusing the SCH on the tank(and the healers should they get hit) the tank can focus on pulling all the hate they want because they have that little safety bubble taking all that damage for them. This will also free up your WHM to do some DPS/buffs instead of constantly healing the tank as their hp moves like a heart monitor on a roller coaster.
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - Nimarhie - 10-20-2013
When I played ACN, I would turn on aether flow and keep it on until the cooldown finished, then use the drains to smack mobs with, then I could turn Flow right back on... probly not the best way to use it, but it worked good enough for me.
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - little-patchy - 10-20-2013
(10-20-2013, 07:23 AM)Larsonient Wrote: Rinh - Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I definitely am more interested in healing. Originally I had intended to make a white mage, but my new FC seemed to already have a few so I decided to go scholar instead (and have since married the idea ICly as well). It didn't even occur to me that summoners also require a 30 arcanist until earlier this afternoon, so any ideas I've entertained about playing a summoner at all are nascent and tentative at best.
TheCurls - I was just about to ask that! So as a summoner you can't use Cleric stance? I was mulling over the idea of being able to play both summoner and scholar (but primarily I want to be into healing, for both IC and OOC reasons), and when you explained that, Rinh, I thought of using Cleric stance as a summoner to switch int for mind. So it won't let you borrow the spell from conjurer?
Also thanks for much for the info and friendly replies. I was a little afraid I'd check this thread again to find a lecture or something about how I'm too low level to be worried about it! RPC has been really great to me since I joined.
Although I AM probably too low level to worry about it, so I'll emphasize again that at this point I'm just sort of absorbing more than worried about my game performance at this level. I'm not a zealous gamer but I still like to be playing correctly.
Also sorry little-patchy for hijacking your thread. xD
I'm also low-level at the moment, and a worrywart, too. But it's never too early to be prepared
! Asking questions is always a good thing, especially if your community is so welcoming.
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - LiadansWhisper - 10-20-2013
(10-20-2013, 01:41 PM)LeCard Wrote: As a SCH player who is about to do the last push to 50 this is what I have found.
1) MND over INT( i did 50/50 but will probably by the points reset item when I can)
Yes, because as a healer, Int is pointless.
Quote:2) Use cleric stance for what it was intended. with all your stats in MND when you use it for solo play you have really nice DMG and a little personal healer Fairy
Yup, yup.
Quote:3) if you want SMN go for it, but only for solo/farming stuff since your int score will be alot lower. (leather/webs/fleece) the pet tanking lets you grab more mobs at once. also big note on the idea of just going it ACN, you still get a BIG stats boost from the soul stones. NEVER go it a class when you could be going it a JOB! just try this, record you stats at your base class, then equip you soul stone(any job) and record your new stats......notice a big jump? that is precisely why you should never try to Class it when you could job it.
Unless you're doing serious endgame as a SMN, it really doesn't make that big of a difference.
Quote:4) CRIT rate is supper important! remember the main aspect of SCH is not curing a large amount of HP in a one shot heal, SCH is a Heal-n-shield style healer and when you crit that heal to some crazy high number you also NEGATE that crazy high number of DMG. SCH should be a boring to play healing class if your doing it right because the team will see hp bars move almost not at all.
At present, the highest amount of Crit you can get to is 17% as a Scholar. Â As a healer, I do not feel that this is worth it to prioritize. Â It's just too RNG to bother with.
Quote:5) Aether flow and you: The ideal use of Aether flow as I have found it is thus, Hold on activating Aether flow until your mp is down 1/4 the way. then hold off on useing the drain skill untill you are down at least another 1/4 to 50% mp. at 25% mp you should be able to use the second shot of the drain skill and follow it up with reactivating Aetherflow instantly getting you back to aprx. 79% mp. rinse and repeat from here 1 drain is at 50% second at 25% Aetherflow ASAP.
You need Aetherflow stacks for much more important things at 50, like Lustrate and Sacred Soil.
Quote:Theorys)
8-16-24 man parties and SCH
Here SCH will be the TANKs personal healer while the WHM is the party healer. by focusing the SCH on the tank(and the healers should they get hit) the tank can focus on pulling all the hate they want because they have that little safety bubble taking all that damage for them. This will also free up your WHM to do some DPS/buffs instead of constantly healing the tank as their hp moves like a heart monitor on a roller coaster.
Nope.
SCH is the mitigation/proactive healer that lacks burst, but makes up for it in DR CDs, situational burst (Lustrate 3x/min), mitigation and lack of mana issues.
WHM is the throughput/reactive healer, that lacks mitigation beyond Stoneskin and has mana issues, but brings strong throughput heals as well as a get-out-of-jail-free card in Benediction.
They're designed to work together, both on tank healing and on raid healing. Â One provides effective health and more stabilizing heals, while the other one provides burst healing on demand.
WHM should not be DPSing while healing in a serious raid.
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - Michikyou - 10-20-2013
I did about 20 mind and the rest in Pie for the extra mana.
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - LiadansWhisper - 10-20-2013
(10-20-2013, 07:17 PM)Naih Wrote: I did about 20 mind and the rest in Pie for the extra mana.
You absolutely don't need the Pie. Â SCH do not have mana issues.
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - LeCard - 10-21-2013
(10-20-2013, 07:11 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote:good info for after 50. I haven't seen the 45/50 skills for SCH so I have no idea how those will work yet, Though I guess needing to use the drain skill could be completely removed with a BRD in the group. But if healing doesn't have alot more MP/stronger Aetherflow I just don't see how Aetherflow alone can make for a lack of mp issues. (though I would like to knowQuote:4) CRIT rate is supper important! remember the main aspect of SCH is not curing a large amount of HP in a one shot heal, SCH is a Heal-n-shield style healer and when you crit that heal to some crazy high number you also NEGATE that crazy high number of DMG. SCH should be a boring to play healing class if your doing it right because the team will see hp bars move almost not at all.
At present, the highest amount of Crit you can get to is 17% as a Scholar. Â As a healer, I do not feel that this is worth it to prioritize. Â It's just too RNG to bother with.
Quote:5) Aether flow and you: The ideal use of Aether flow as I have found it is thus, Hold on activating Aether flow until your mp is down 1/4 the way. then hold off on useing the drain skill untill you are down at least another 1/4 to 50% mp. at 25% mp you should be able to use the second shot of the drain skill and follow it up with reactivating Aetherflow instantly getting you back to aprx. 79% mp. rinse and repeat from here 1 drain is at 50% second at 25% Aetherflow ASAP.
You need Aetherflow stacks for much more important things at 50, like Lustrate and Sacred Soil.
Quote:Theorys)
8-16-24 man parties and SCH
Here SCH will be the TANKs personal healer while the WHM is the party healer. by focusing the SCH on the tank(and the healers should they get hit) the tank can focus on pulling all the hate they want because they have that little safety bubble taking all that damage for them. This will also free up your WHM to do some DPS/buffs instead of constantly healing the tank as their hp moves like a heart monitor on a roller coaster.
Nope.
SCH is the mitigation/proactive healer that lacks burst, but makes up for it in DR CDs, situational burst (Lustrate 3x/min), mitigation and lack of mana issues.
)As for crit rate, That is the suggested extra points for SCH since PIE is pointless. Not sure what else you would use Materia for if MND is caped. of course the pointlessness of the stats other than the main stats is an entirely different discussion, sometimes I wonder why they even bothered with giving people a choice in stats at all.
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - Reginald - 10-21-2013
(10-21-2013, 02:27 AM)LeCard Wrote: good info for after 50. I haven't seen the 45/50 skills for SCH so I have no idea how those will work yet, Though I guess needing to use the drain skill could be completely removed with a BRD in the group. But if healing doesn't have alot more MP/stronger Aetherflow I just don't see how Aetherflow alone can make for a lack of mp issues. (though I would like to know
As for crit rate, That is the suggested extra points for SCH since PIE is pointless. Not sure what else you would use Materia for if MND is caped. of course the pointlessness of the stats other than the main stats is an entirely different discussion, sometimes I wonder why they even bothered with giving people a choice in stats at all.
I have 2 SCHs (one in Tonberry and another in Balmung) and from my experience Aetherflow and the occasional Energy Drain are enough to maintain my MP pool. Always remember that your main heal is still Physick and not Adloquium. During long fights, make sure to cast Aetherflow as soon as it's up but use Energy Drain, Bane, Lustrate, or Sacred Soil first to use up the remaining stacks.
About stats, it really depends on which one you want to focus on. I went full MND on mine and use Cleric Stance for fights that need the extra DPS. To be effective, you'll have to learn to switch Cleric Stance on/off for DPS or healing. Believe me, our DPS is pretty good with Cleric Stance on. In one AK run with a DRG friend who was parsing, the total damage for Demon Wall were as follows: DRG - 11k (LB not included in parse), SCH - 12k, ARC (not BRD) - 17k *whistles*. And for the entire dungeon: DRG - 65k, ARC - 78k, SCH - 140k (!). Gotta love Bane. Both the DRG and ARC had Relic+1 and DL gears while I only had a relic and AK gears. I rarely heal in AK; I just place Eos where it can reach the entire party and cast Rouse when needed.
Oh, and if MND is capped for materia, go VIT.
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - Rinh Hallani - 10-21-2013
(10-21-2013, 02:51 AM)Reginald Wrote: I have 2 SCHs (one in Tonberry and another in Balmung) and from my experience Aetherflow and the occasional Energy Drain are enough to maintain my MP pool.
Yes, same here. I don't have mana issues.
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - LiadansWhisper - 10-21-2013
(10-21-2013, 02:27 AM)LeCard Wrote: good info for after 50. I haven't seen the 45/50 skills for SCH so I have no idea how those will work yet, Though I guess needing to use the drain skill could be completely removed with a BRD in the group. But if healing doesn't have alot more MP/stronger Aetherflow I just don't see how Aetherflow alone can make for a lack of mp issues. (though I would like to know
Energy Drain is something to use, but that's going to depend on the group (and how and when you use your Aetherflow stacks in 8man/24 man content is going to depend on the strat for the fight, etc). Â But in my experience, I've yet to see anything that's run me OOM unless I simply forgot I had Aetherflow off CD and failed to hit it while spamming Adlo.
Quote:As for crit rate, That is the suggested extra points for SCH since PIE is pointless. Not sure what else you would use Materia for if MND is caped. of course the pointlessness of the stats other than the main stats is an entirely different discussion, sometimes I wonder why they even bothered with giving people a choice in stats at all.
Determination is another option. Â It's a flat, consistent bonus to both healing and, by extension, mitigation.
RE: Attribute points for arcanist to scholar - Flapjack - 10-21-2013
Hello.
First off, it is great to see this type of discussion on forums. Â Its awesome to see all the different viewpoints!
I've been playing a SCH since day 1. Â It is an incredibly fun and powerful class. Â That being said, it requires a very different playstyle than your typical healer. Â What Liadan said is absolutely correct. Â Scholar's are proactive/mitigation healers. Â Without much left to do PvE wise, I've been running a lot of tests, both of gear and of myself to try and stretch the limits of this class. Â So far, I have successfully healed WP, AK, CM, and HM Ifrit completely naked, and HM Garuda half naked. Â I'd like to share some of my findings on topics people are discussing in this thread.
Stats-Mind is king. Â Obviously. Â Second is crit. Then determination, then spell speed. Â I'll expand more on these choices later when skill choice is explained.
Heal skills, and when to use them-
Adloquium: Â I am putting this first since it seems like the most commonly misunderstood spell. Â Adloquium is FAR more powerful than most people give it credit for. Â It has the potential to raise the effective health of someone beyond their max. Â Adloquium is your primary heal. Â This is why crit is important on a Scholar. Â You may look at Adloquium's raw healing numbers, it it will pale in comparison to Physick, but the shield it provides is invaluable. Â An adloquium shield should be on the tank at all times. Â Never spam it over and over, but always weave it with physick.
Physick: Â You're secondary heal. The only time physick should be cast is when the tank already has an adloquium shield. Â Getting into a good rotation of Adloquium -> Physick -> Physick -> Adloquium (depending on the strength of your shields) will improve your mana efficiency over long fights. Â Pet embrace should be spammed pretty much the entire time. Â For most trash, nothing more than adloquium -> embrace -> embrace -> adloquium -> repeat is needed.
Succor: Weak ass aoe. Â Healing is dismal. Â But the shield should be on your party at all times. Â Casting one every 20 seconds, or when you get the free proc from sacred soil, should not hurt your mana efficiency.
 Mana management:  SCH has amazing mana management with aether flow.  But a common misconception is the use of energy drain over lustrate or sacred soil.  The only time I ever use energy drain is when every is at full health, everyone has succor shields, no aoe damage is comming soon, I have extra aether flow stacks, and aether flow is off cool down.  In most fights, lustrate is a better choice than energy drain for long term mana efficiency.  You normally have to spend way more mana than energy drain gives you to heal 20% of a tanks health.  In almost all instances, you will see a better long term mana return with lustrate than energy drain.
Mitigation rotation-
This is something I feel is a staple of the scholar class that is widely underused. Â Getting into a good rotation of sacred soil, virus, eye for an eye, blind, rouse (no mitigation, but requires you to heal a lot less), Â and adloquium shields is a bigger benefit to this class than gear choice, healing power, you name it.
I Don't want to write too much, as I'm sure a lot of people Don't want to read a wall of text. There are a lot of misconceptions out there about the scholar class, and what exactly its role is in healing.  You aren't a tank healer.  Nobody is a tank healer really.  You are a damage mitigator of the tank and of your party.  A scholar who isn't keeping shields up, keeping a good mitigation rotation, and not using their pets abilities to their advantage, can still be a very good healer, but  they aren't playing this class to the fullest.