RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Coatleque - 10-29-2014
(10-29-2014, 10:16 AM)Inessa Hara Wrote:
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If they make a Democracy, it would only serve to probably change the current system and solidify the unity of the masses, because money will no longer rule the voice of the people but publicly elected and represented individuals who when they put into power, will help right the wrongs the merchant class has inflicted on the lower class of society.
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You are assuming the 'merchant class' will go quietly into the sunset and let your view of Democracy take over.
What more than likely will happen is there will be no Democracy. The state will still be ruled by a governing Syndicate of merchants, but with no royalist opposition. Not true Democracy, but a Republic.
Either way, I still don't think it will happen. Eorzea is too primitive for it to work. With such a threat as the Empire on their boarders, strong central leadership is required to make split decisions and Democracy is the slowest and weakest form of government out there.
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Seriphyn - 10-29-2014
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my thoughtsEr, the merchantclass are not just going to evaporate because the Syndicate gets dissolved and a republic is formed (incidentally, interesting to note that Eorzeans have a concept of a 'republic' to begin with). If they form some parliament, senate, or a more creative name, it will most definitely be split between representatives of merchants and representatives of the commoners. Ul'dahn intrigue will continue. The Brass Blades, by virtue of the fact they've been around for years and years, will continue to be the police of Ul'dah. The Immortal Flames will remain as the Grand Company and answer to whatever parliament is formed. The Sultansworn either get dissolved (doubtful), remain as some elite force and retaining the name for historical purposes or...
TheSyndicate/Adeledji pull off a treasonous act that permits the Sultana to dissolve the Syndicate without backlash, and still goes ahead with creating democracy anyway with her as a constitutional monarch. That would go against her own words about stepping down completely (or rather, just not designating a successor), but nothing goes according to plan in the FFXIV universe. As such, the Sultansworn stick around for the "last Sultana of Ul'dah", which might as well be for the rest of our RL lives.
Square Enix areexcellent writers, and Ul'dah becoming a republic will not come without instability and intrigue. Ul'dah will continue to be a merchant nation with questionable elements. If anything, democracy might just exacerbate it. Also I agree with Coat that a universal democracy may be a bit anachronistic for Eorzea's level of politico-social development. It will not match the Sultana's pure vision.
Interesting to notethat FFXIV's Middle Eastern/Ottoman flavoured state is the one pioneering democracy and "Anyone can become anyone" Â Â
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Erik Mynhier - 10-29-2014
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Spoiler.... Yes Your Grace.... because nothing stops the poorest from being exploited by the rich like a republic-style democracy..... /sarcasm
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Parvacake - 10-29-2014
(10-29-2014, 12:00 PM)Erik Mynhier Wrote:
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Spoiler.... Yes Your Grace.... because nothing stops the poorest from being exploited by the rich like a republic-style democracy..... /sarcasm
 Yup. All of ^^^^^ right here.
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Aldotsk - 10-29-2014
Someone summarize for me? Because I am really far behind the story anyways so I'd appreciate it if someone spoiler tag or PM what the discussion was about .
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Sounsyy - 10-29-2014
(10-29-2014, 12:00 PM)Erik Mynhier Wrote:
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Spoiler.... Yes Your Grace.... because nothing stops the poorest from being exploited by the rich like a republic-style democracy..... /sarcasm
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This, exactly.
Even if the Sultana abolishes the Syndicate and the Crown, she effectively points the gun at herself and removes the Syndicate's only check/balance. She strips herself of all of her power but the Syndicate will remain strong, not because they're the Syndicate, but because of why they're on the Syndicate. The Syndicate members are tycoons of business, infrastructure, military, and politics. You may strip the Syndicate of their official ruling power, but they are still the leaders of their sectors and businesses.
Lolorito controls Ul'dah's trade. Teledji Adeledji owns the Brass Blades, Ul'dah's police. Dewlala is Ul'dah's foremost religious leader. Fyrgeiss (who seems like a pretty nice guy honestly) and the Amajina & Sons Mineral Concern has monopolized the mining of all raw resources including Ceruleum production. Hildibrand Sr will still go around suplexing anyone he wants!
Unless you remove each of the Syndicate members from being the heads of their respective money pits, the Sultana has done nothing to remove their influence/control on Ul'dah.
(10-29-2014, 08:05 AM)Coatleque Wrote:
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I don't know what you are talking about yet because I haven't gotten there. But once again I ask, where were her Sultansworn in all of this?
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SpoilerHonestly... if I was the Sultana, I wouldn't have any Sultansworn in my private chambers either. Especially after EXTRA SPOILERY turns out to be a MUCH SPOILER 4 SPOILER TAG starts with an 'S' and ends with a 'pie' sound. Nothing is safe! Nothing is sacred!
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Verad - 10-29-2014
(10-29-2014, 12:38 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:
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SpoilerThis, exactly.
Even if the Sultana abolishes the Syndicate and the Crown, she effectively points the gun at herself and removes the Syndicate's only check/balance. She strips herself of all of her power but the Syndicate will remain strong, not because they're the Syndicate, but because of why they're on the Syndicate. The Syndicate members are tycoons of business, infrastructure, military, and politics. You may strip the Syndicate of their official ruling power, but they are still the leaders of their sectors and businesses.
Lolorito controls Ul'dah's trade. Teledji Adeledji owns the Brass Blades, Ul'dah's police. Dewlala is Ul'dah's foremost religious leader. Fyrgeiss (who seems like a pretty nice guy honestly) and the Amajina & Sons Mineral Concern has monopolized the mining of all raw resources including Ceruleum production. Hildibrand Sr will still go around suplexing anyone he wants!
Unless you remove each of the Syndicate members from being the heads of their respective money pits, the Sultana has done nothing to remove their influence/control on Ul'dah.
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SpoilerThere is of course the unlikely possibility that she has the foresight to either nationalize their businesses and redistribute their wealth or at least break apart the monopolies that give them their influence before removing their legal authority. Dare to dream.
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Aya - 10-29-2014
(10-29-2014, 01:01 PM)Verad Wrote: (10-29-2014, 12:38 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:
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SpoilerThis, exactly.
Even if the Sultana abolishes the Syndicate and the Crown, she effectively points the gun at herself and removes the Syndicate's only check/balance. She strips herself of all of her power but the Syndicate will remain strong, not because they're the Syndicate, but because of why they're on the Syndicate. The Syndicate members are tycoons of business, infrastructure, military, and politics. You may strip the Syndicate of their official ruling power, but they are still the leaders of their sectors and businesses.
Lolorito controls Ul'dah's trade. Teledji Adeledji owns the Brass Blades, Ul'dah's police. Dewlala is Ul'dah's foremost religious leader. Fyrgeiss (who seems like a pretty nice guy honestly) and the Amajina & Sons Mineral Concern has monopolized the mining of all raw resources including Ceruleum production. Hildibrand Sr will still go around suplexing anyone he wants!
Unless you remove each of the Syndicate members from being the heads of their respective money pits, the Sultana has done nothing to remove their influence/control on Ul'dah.
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SpoilerThere is of course the unlikely possibility that she has the foresight to either nationalize their businesses and redistribute their wealth or at least break apart the monopolies that give them their influence before removing their legal authority. Dare to dream.
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SpoilerThis actually assumes that she has the political and military clout to win the civil war that would result from an attempt to seize Syndicate property (and given her apparent intention to step away from power, while the Syndicate has no such intention, it is not difficult to see who the winner of that civil war would be). Its hard to see any result of her abdicating other than Syndicate control of Ul'dah.
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - ProvaDiServo - 10-29-2014
(10-29-2014, 12:34 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: Someone summarize for me? Because I am really far behind the story anyways so I'd appreciate it if someone spoiler tag or PM what the discussion was about .
Wouldn't mind this myself, please!
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Verad - 10-29-2014
(10-29-2014, 01:04 PM)Aya Wrote:
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SpoilerThis actually assumes that she has the political and military clout to win the civil war that would result from an attempt to seize Syndicate property (and given her apparent intention to step away from power, while the Syndicate has no such intention, it is not difficult to see who the winner of that civil war would be). Its hard to see any result of her abdicating other than Syndicate control of Ul'dah.
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SpoilerIt does, and I will gleefully hold onto that assumption until she is shown to lose or the writers are shown to have not thought this through.
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Coatleque - 10-29-2014
(10-29-2014, 12:38 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Nothing is safe! Nothing is sacred!
I am sure there are some close, personal members of the Order that she DOES trust. They can't all be corrupt.
(10-29-2014, 01:01 PM)Verad Wrote:
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SpoilerThere is of course the unlikely possibility that she has the foresight to either nationalize their businesses and redistribute their wealth or at least break apart the monopolies that give them their influence before removing their legal authority. Dare to dream.
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Great, so now we move straight over Democracy and go right into a Socialist Dictatorship  Just cut out the middle-men.
And also...
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As I said in another post before, Nanamo does have the authority to order her Sworn to take back control of the city by force. She is a monarch after all. However due to many personal and social reasons she has not done so. I wish they would have played more into this notion rather than an outright throwing in of the towel. Seems like she's giving up rather than forcing change.
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Aya - 10-29-2014
(10-29-2014, 01:09 PM)Verad Wrote:
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SpoilerIt does, and I will gleefully hold onto that assumption until she is shown to lose or the writers are shown to have not thought this through.
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SpoilerThe good old, "the script writers are on my side!" trick 
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Coatleque - 10-29-2014
(10-29-2014, 01:08 PM)ProvaDiServo Wrote: (10-29-2014, 12:34 PM)Aldotsk Wrote: Someone summarize for me? Because I am really far behind the story anyways so I'd appreciate it if someone spoiler tag or PM what the discussion was about .
Wouldn't mind this myself, please!
One Sentence Summary:
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Nanamo Ul'Namo is thinking of abdicating and abolishing her throne in favor of a Republic type government of Ul'dah.
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Verad - 10-29-2014
(10-29-2014, 01:12 PM)Coatleque Wrote:
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Great, so now we move straight over Democracy and go right into a Socialist Dictatorship  Just cut out the middle-men.
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SpoilerIf it's going to work anywhere, it's going to work in a work of fiction.
Glory to Arstoztk - er, Ul'dah.
RE: ULDAH MSQ - If you RP in Ul'dah you should finish MSQ - Kage - 10-29-2014
Well, i didn't mean that you should finish it to use it in RP but more that I figure if you RP in Ul'dah that you might be interested in the contents and in which you should finish it.
Because it seems that come 2.5 it'll be finishing this line.
I don't think in 3.0 they will continue this.
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