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+--- Thread: Let us speak of language (/showthread.php?tid=6777)
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Let us speak of language - Erik Mynhier - 03-27-2014
So I had a very nice conversation with a few RPers on the topic of language in Eorzea. Specifically whether there is a common language, such as South America irl being mostly Spanish speakers (Yes I know others are there, I said mostly), or is there many national languages with a common language used, making it more like Europe, a relatively packed continent that has still managed to develop many languages while using a common language (English).
Now I know the Lore says little on the matter, making some RPers nervous about touching it, for fear future expansions to the lore will force them to recon. But I am not asking for Lore, I'm asking what your gut tells you in the absence of the lore.
My personal opinion is the latter, multiple local languages with a common language for all, most likely Dunefolk, due to the rl history that states that those who control the business of the time, picks the language. This is led in large part from the naming conventions that have been greatly detailed by the lore devs, far more then most things. The names seem to have similarities to rl languages, as has been pointed out many times.
I just want to know what everyone thinks. Either way Erik will continue to speak Ala Mhigan (Dutch) and Ishgardian (French) from time to time.
RE: Let us speak of language - Zhavi - 03-27-2014
I always think of it this way: where there is commerce, there is a common language. Maybe it's just a trade language, but something.
Then again, I've always been one to make up whatever I need for rp -- so long as it does not go against or break current lore. If something changes later, whatever, I'll make it work.
RE: Let us speak of language - Knight Kat - 03-27-2014
I've said it before in an old post, but I'll say it again here. It makes sense for there to be various languages amongst the cultures and/or nations even if there is a common Eorzean language that is more-commonly spoken.
The naming conventions would be impossible to maintain for most of the races if they didn't understand the meaning of their names. There is no name-generator in the lore that all Eorzeans go to in order to name their children. Yet, nearly all of NPCs have names based on the game's naming conventions.
My gut feeling, as you put it, tells me that there are various languages within the cultures and nations of Eorzea, but the devs never made mini dictionaries for any of them except for the Roegadyn Seawolves. They probably thought it too much work, or unnecessary since there -is- a common Eorzean language.
My opinion is; if you want Erik to spout off words in other languages, got for it. It wouldn't bother me because my character wouldn't be able to ICly understand him anyways.
RE: Let us speak of language - Ildur - 03-27-2014
My guts tell me that Eorzea has one single unified language, with maybe dialects or variations across areas, but nothing that could be clearly identified as different. Pretty much like every spanish speaking country in real life: they all are a variation of a particular language from Spain, castillian. There's actually a crapton of regional languages in Spain, but when you learn 'spanish' you learn castillain, because that's the language that imposed itself thanks to the Reconquest, and so it was the one they used when colonizing America.
So my take on it is that everyone in Eorzea speaks "eorzean" or some kind of variation of it. Not because they were colonized by an external kingdom that imposed something on them (like it was in the case of South America), but because it is stated by lore that all the races have been in the continent for a really long time. So long, in fact, that racial barriers have pretty much fell and dissapeared except on the cases of Ishgard and Gridania who are pretty xenophobic. But otherwise you can find all races all over the continent.
On the other hand, it makes a lot of sense for certain nations (particularly Gridania and Ishgard) to have their own distinct languages. But I'd expect such a thing would have been mentioned by the lore. And that really is the problem: At the end, no matter what our guts tells us, or how logical it'd be to have multiple languages, the fact is that they are never mentioned anywhere in the game except for ancient roegadyn. This pretty much implies that there is only one language in use as far as the canon is concerned.
RE: Let us speak of language - FreelanceWizard - 03-27-2014
My impression is that Eorzean is the common tongue, with the "racial languages" having died off quite a while ago with the possible exception of the beast tribes and rare "lost" villages and societies (i.e., player-created) with no outside contact. Centuries if not millennia of living in close proximity and actively trading and warring would have turned distinct languages into pidgins and eventually into a new language (a creole). As the creole grew increasingly popular, it just became "the language." Because this happened quite a while ago, it's possible that Garlemald experienced the same process pre-Empire (the Empire being pretty recent in that continent's history). Certainly, I would expect all Garleans are forced to speak the same language enforced by Imperial decree.
RE: Let us speak of language - Goodfellow - 03-27-2014
I lean towards there being more or less one common Eorzean language (minus the beastmen tribes, Padjal, and fanon languages). There could be a number of dialects, but we don't really see anything amongst the playable races.Â
-The Elezen have a French flavor to their names, but any sort of barrier to communication is never mentioned.Â
-The Roegadyn language is specifically mentioned as being used exclusively in names, having otherwise died off.Â
-The Miqo'te language apparently shared the same 26 letters as the Eorzean alphabet (with slightly different pronunciations), which they adopted.Â
-And the Lalafell are mentioned as having once had vowels that they no longer use, implying to me that the language which used those vowels is no longer in use either.
-We do see and hear reference to beastmen languages and, maybe, a Garlean language, but we are also explicitly able to understand them via the Echo, which your particular character may or may not have. In fact, the only language we ever hear (which we still understand via subtitles, but which we do in fact hear) is the Ascian language.
It's frustratingly unrealistic to me as a linguist-to-be, but we really don't know how large an area the total geography of Eorzea occupies and they do have fast travel capabilities and a method of instant communication (the linkshells/pearls), so those would play a role, as they have in the real world, in wilting away a number of languages.
RE: Let us speak of language - Koninbeor - 03-27-2014
I will echo Ildur and FW on this one. There is no indication anywhere that any languages exist in Eorzea other than the common tongue. Different regions are likely to use the language in slightly different ways and accents probably wouldn't be uncommon. Even within the United States, there are accents varying by where people live and different words are used to describe items. Soda or pop, for example. The only other language we see an example of is Roegadyn and even then we only have a smattering of words with no indication as to how those words would actually be used to form complete sentences.
RE: Let us speak of language - Nate Mathis - 03-28-2014
I would say languages could exist. Other final fantasy's had language differences..such as the girl in ff 10, Riku was it? Her crew and her seemed slavic to me.
RE: Let us speak of language - Erik Mynhier - 03-29-2014
My thoughts merely come from my personal life and experience, which is different from most americans, and my training in basic medicine and science. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. That's all.
RE: Let us speak of language - Knight Kat - 03-29-2014
(03-29-2014, 01:02 AM)Erik Mynhier Wrote: The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. That's all.
I've already said my piece, so I'll just second this^
RE: Let us speak of language - Aldotsk - 03-29-2014
(03-28-2014, 11:49 PM)Kim Jeong Rok Wrote: I would say languages could exist. Other final fantasy's had language differences..such as the girl in ff 10, Riku was it? Her crew and her seemed slavic to me.
Al Bhed? They are just scrambled purposely. They aren't really slavic. It's a substitution ciphers.
Honestly, no one can confirm what these people speak in Eorzea. However, the way I see people speaking in different language ICly makes it feel like they are still in the old tribal like barbarians unable to be adapted to common language.Â
If we get samurai/ninja from the far east of eorzea, then it's obvious that we'll have to face Japanese language. (oh wait, that already exists. kind of.)
RE: Let us speak of language - Shizuka - 03-29-2014
I sort of picture it as there being one overarching "Common" tongue, as well as individual languages that may only have limited usage nowadays. Meaning, you might grow up in Ul'dah, but since the Common tongue is the most used, you really might not know whatever the native tongue is there. However, if your family is super traditional and stresses history and sticking to your roots and all that, you may have grown up knowing the native tongue... even if it doesn't have much practical application in every day life.
On top of that, I wouldn't be surprised if the more isolated people, especially Miqo'te tribes, had their own language and were only semi-familiar with the Common tongue. I figure all this leaves a lot of wiggle room for RPers to have a variety of accents and dialects and also allows some to RP characters that don't always understand the language. Makes for some amusement when a character takes you literally on some slang!
RE: Let us speak of language - E'irawen - 03-29-2014
(03-27-2014, 08:48 AM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: My impression is that Eorzean is the common tongue, with the "racial languages" having died off quite a while ago with the possible exception of the beast tribes and rare "lost" villages and societies (i.e., player-created) with no outside contact. Centuries if not millennia of living in close proximity and actively trading and warring would have turned distinct languages into pidgins and eventually into a new language (a creole). As the creole grew increasingly popular, it just became "the language." Because this happened quite a while ago, it's possible that Garlemald experienced the same process pre-Empire (the Empire being pretty recent in that continent's history). Certainly, I would expect all Garleans are forced to speak the same language enforced by Imperial decree.
RE: Let us speak of language - TheLastCandle - 03-29-2014
FreelanceWizard pretty much summed up my thoughts on the matter. All of the city-states in Eorzea seem to be quite cosmopolitan, with nary a trace of a disparate languages aside from racial naming conventions.
Honestly, if you speak French - for example - and intend for it to be understood by other players who roleplay themselves being from Ishgard you should not expect them to a.) know French or b.) use Google Translate to understand what your character is saying. It's your head-canon, not theirs, and they shouldn't be beholden to it.
Otherwise, in my opinion, go crazy with it if it makes you happy.
RE: Let us speak of language - Erik Mynhier - 03-30-2014
(03-29-2014, 09:22 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote: Otherwise, in my opinion, go crazy with it if it makes you happy.
Then to that I smile to you and say my thanks, and follow with a "Gratis Ala Mhigo!" and to Ishgard I say, "Ouvrez les portes!"