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+--- Thread: The effects of Tempering (/showthread.php?tid=6342)
The effects of Tempering - McBeefâ„¢ - 02-12-2014
My character was recently tempered (last night), and I'm trying to get some information on the changes that occur. Hopefully people here have some knowledge on the subject.
-Mentally: How strong is the devotion of a tempered, does it vary between primal?
-Magically: Every tempered tribe with a primal seems to gain strength from that primal's element in a way non-tempered tribes don't. For example, unlike all other sylphs and lizardmen, the brotherhood of ash and little solace do not seem to have lightining/fire control. Is that elemental proficiency a boon of the primal? Or is it just a coincidence.
-Communication: Tempered are often spoken of as hearing the will of the one that tempered them, can primals and tempered communicate through some special means?
Any other information or lore would be helpful thanks.
RE: The effects of Tempering - Whittledown - 02-12-2014
Wow! Tempering is a pretty huge deal, bold of you to take that on to your character!
From what I've gathered in game, Tempering destroys or subverts all or at least a goodly portion of the victims will and fills in the gap with the will of the Primal. An intense reverence for said Primal follows and all victims of tempering seen in game know full well that they now serve whatever Primal made claim. The devotion appears to be absolute, regardless of who does the tempering.
I think that a form of direct control from Primal to servant makes sense, whether through direct mental communication or through a more subtle pressure on the victims psyche to do certain things.
I think that tempering could very well give the servant a measure of the Primals power. It makes sense that a Primal would want their servants to be strong and also to express the Primal's power through their actions and abilities.
RE: The effects of Tempering - McBeefâ„¢ - 02-12-2014
(02-12-2014, 12:31 PM)Whittledown Wrote: From what I've gathered in game, Tempering destroys or subverts all or at least a goodly portion of the victims will and fills in the gap with the will of the Primal. An intense reverence for said Primal follows and all victims of tempering seen in game know full well that they now serve whatever Primal made claim. The devotion appears to be absolute, regardless of who does the tempering.
It's slightly complicated because the Primal was devoted to my character, and my character was devoted to the primal before it happened. So as long as they keep up that relationship, I'm not overly concerned about the mental stuff at this very moment. Both of them would have already done literally anything for the other, however if that relationship changes, then the mental stuff will naturally come up.
RE: The effects of Tempering - Aysun - 02-12-2014
That is... very bold.
I'm not sure how a primal could be devoted to your character (??), but now that they're tempered they're certainly devoted to the primal. Their life revolves around finding ways to summon that primal. Their very purpose is to do that, and get others to as well.
Please keep in mind that if people find out (and it is rather obvious when someone is tempered..), execution is the treatment for those who are tempered. For the good of Eorzea.
-Mentally: How strong is the devotion of a tempered, does it vary between primal?
Does not seem to vary at all. It is complete commitment and servitude to that primal and summoning them.
-Magically: Every tempered tribe with a primal seems to gain strength from that primal's element in a way non-tempered tribes don't. For example, unlike all other sylphs and lizardmen, the brotherhood of ash and little solace do not seem to have lightining/fire control. Is that elemental proficiency a boon of the primal? Or is it just a coincidence.
The Brotherhood of Ash and the sylphs of Little Solace are not tempered, so that is why you see the discrepancy.
-Communication: Tempered are often spoken of as hearing the will of the one that tempered them, can primals and tempered communicate through some special means?
I don't think it's communication so much as the primal exerting their will on the tempered person. They're not going to have a chat with the primal. They're going to do what it wants, and it wants crystals to be summoned with, and more people to temper, by any means necessary.
EDIT: I also notice in your wiki you state that she's hunted primals before. In order to do that without being tempered, one must have the Echo pretty much. And if one has the Echo, they can't be tempered. Confusion!
RE: The effects of Tempering - McBeefâ„¢ - 02-12-2014
(02-12-2014, 01:48 PM)Aysun Wrote: That is... very bold.
I'm not sure how a primal could be devoted to your character (??), but now that they're tempered they're certainly devoted to the primal. Their life revolves around finding ways to summon that primal. Their very purpose is to do that, and get others to as well.
Please keep in mind that if people find out (and it is rather obvious when someone is tempered..), execution is the treatment for those who are tempered. For the good of Eorzea.
-Mentally: How strong is the devotion of a tempered, does it vary between primal?
Does not seem to vary at all. It is complete commitment and servitude to that primal and summoning them.
-Magically: Every tempered tribe with a primal seems to gain strength from that primal's element in a way non-tempered tribes don't. For example, unlike all other sylphs and lizardmen, the brotherhood of ash and little solace do not seem to have lightining/fire control. Is that elemental proficiency a boon of the primal? Or is it just a coincidence.
The Brotherhood of Ash and the sylphs of Little Solace are not tempered, so that is why you see the discrepancy.
-Communication: Tempered are often spoken of as hearing the will of the one that tempered them, can primals and tempered communicate through some special means?
I don't think it's communication so much as the primal exerting their will on the tempered person. They're not going to have a chat with the primal. They're going to do what it wants, and it wants crystals to be summoned with, and more people to temper, by any means necessary.
This is not directly true, plenty of primals are shown to not care about tempering large groups of people. In fact Ifrit, and Garuda seem to be the only ones that do. Ramuh and Titan for example, both only seem to care about protecting their groups. It's why a group of people without the Echo could actually kill titan, because he didn't want to temper them.
I think it's clear in the lore that every primal is different, and tempers mortals for different reasons and to accomplish different goals. In fact there is fairly strong evidence for the idea that the twelve, as well as Hydalyn are varients of primals, and that the Echo merely represents that you were tempered by Hydalyn before a primal could get to you.
Edit: On another note, at the end of the Amal beast tribe quests, several tempered people are shown to be allowed to live out their lives. So while the Scions do immediately kill tempered, that's not a universal punishment. In fact it might be a policy unique to the Scions themselves.
RE: The effects of Tempering - Kage - 02-12-2014
As far as I could tell based only on what I did for MSQ for ARR... tempered are there for the sole purpose of providing the primal with the physical manifest and providing it with the aether it craves.
How elder primals act I'm not sure (odin??). They seem to appear physically without any tempered or summoning from prayers.
King Moggle Mog as we know him isn't a primal for clarification and the mooglesguard aren't tempered but he's some form of twisted wish fulfillment manifest that craves for aether and sustaining physical form through prayer like the primals do.
Honestly, there's probably going to be a bit of handwaving going on. Even with the tempered sylphs and Ramuh, it doesn't mean one of the first reactions wasn't to do something about the tempered ones, such as putting them down. The more neutral aligned tempered sylphs just won't immediately be causing trouble.
Edit: But I have read that the idea might be that those with Echo (aka Adventurer in MSQ) is "tempered" by Hydaelyn and the large crystal thing we always see or from the Twelve.
RE: The effects of Tempering - Asgarn - 02-12-2014
Bravo on the original concept! I'm intrigued to see whether you go full zealot or some form of spy among the ranks... Though, I doubt sudden, loud outbursts of "HAIL IFRIT! BY FIRE, BE CLEANSED!" would be all that subtle. Maybe if you wear a moustache.
Mentally: From what I can gather, the mentality of a tempered is the greatest change they undertake. The mind of the individual seems to warp, suiting the Primal's ideals (ie. Ifrit's immense zealotry, Garuda's thirst for power & dominance, Ramuh and Titan's protectiveness, though the latter two do so in very different ways). This does not mean, in my view, they would be as full on as their primals. I mean, you don't see an Ixal wearing a bra made of feathers being a bit of a dominatrix, do you? So it's more their ideals, I would say.
Magically: I figure this comes as part of their fanaticism. ie. Rather than having a gift bestowed upon them, in an attempt to please their primal deity, they will study tirelessly the element of their patron. So, rather than some "divine gift", I would say this, too, is an attempt to be as alike to their primal as possible.
Plus, if that's not enough, think of it this way. You have been tempered by, say... Leviathan. Despite having a stupid name now, Mrs Scaleback, it is highly likely you will view the element of water as superior to all others. As such, which magic are you most likely to want to master? Water.
Communication: I have no source on this but I would say, yet again, one word: Fanaticism. History has proven this time and time again. Devote yourself to a cause or deity too much and you will start to believe you are their "Hand" in the mortal plane. There may well be some form of mental echo the Primals use to speak to the tempered, but I would bet the tempered are just doing what they think their god would like/they have been commanded. Somebody questions why? "BECAUSE IFRIT."
RE: The effects of Tempering - Aysun - 02-12-2014
(02-12-2014, 02:01 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: This is not directly true, plenty of primals are shown to not care about tempering large groups of people. In fact Ifrit, and Garuda seem to be the only ones that do. Ramuh and Titan for example, both only seem to care about protecting their groups. It's why a group of people without the Echo could actually kill titan, because he didn't want to temper them.
I think it's clear in the lore that every primal is different, and tempers mortals for different reasons and to accomplish different goals. In fact there is fairly strong evidence for the idea that the twelve, as well as Hydalyn are varients of primals, and that the Echo merely represents that you were tempered by Hydalyn before a primal could get to you.
Edit: On another note, at the end of the Amal beast tribe quests, several tempered people are shown to be allowed to live out their lives. So while the Scions do immediately kill tempered, that's not a universal punishment. In fact it might be a policy unique to the Scions themselves.
I'm perfectly fine with the assumptions people make that those with the Echo are tempered by Hydaelyn already. I'm fine with the Twelve being basically the equivalent of primals themselves. That stuff is in lore, of course.
That said, I'm speaking in majorities, because the other variety feels snowflakeish to me. ONE small group of people killed Titan once without being tempered. I don't remember that particular part of the story myself, but it's been awhile since I've done it. You don't think Titan would learn from that? There are a FEW people that are allowed to live out their lives as tempered beings. Being /that/ special isn't always smiled upon in RP, so that's why I was offering the generalizations I was.
RE: The effects of Tempering - Kage - 02-12-2014
(02-12-2014, 02:01 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Edit: On another note, at the end of the Amal beast tribe quests, several tempered people are shown to be allowed to live out their lives. So while the Scions do immediately kill tempered, that's not a universal punishment. In fact it might be a policy unique to the Scions themselves.SPOILERS RAWR You know I haven't done them all yet T_T Really is that Loonh Gah you didn't say T_T
The band of mercenaries who took down Titan named the Company of Heroes tell you that they used the Kobold aetheryte to go in and defeat him. Involves the very long series of quests including the imposter, Brayflox, wine, and a feast. I'm pretty sure that they do not have the Echo. I'm still curious as to how a blind Lalafell beat Titan >_> <_<
RE: The effects of Tempering - Asgarn - 02-12-2014
(02-12-2014, 03:01 PM)ExKage Wrote:(02-12-2014, 02:01 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Edit: On another note, at the end of the Amal beast tribe quests, several tempered people are shown to be allowed to live out their lives. So while the Scions do immediately kill tempered, that's not a universal punishment. In fact it might be a policy unique to the Scions themselves.SPOILERS RAWR You know I haven't done them all yet T_T Really is that Loonh Gah you didn't say T_T
The band of mercenaries who took down Titan named the Company of Heroes tell you that they used the Kobold aetheryte to go in and defeat him. Involves the very long series of quests including the imposter, Brayflox, wine, and a feast. I'm pretty sure that they do not have the Echo. I'm still curious as to how a blind Lalafell beat Titan >_> <_<
I believe the Lalafell lost his sight during the fight against Titan. Clearly, his short stature played to a disadvantage when he found himself directly below Titans loincloth.
RE: The effects of Tempering - Hyakki - 02-12-2014
(02-12-2014, 02:01 PM)Natalie Mcbeef Wrote: Edit: On another note, at the end of the Amal beast tribe quests, several tempered people are shown to be allowed to live out their lives. So while the Scions do immediately kill tempered, that's not a universal punishment. In fact it might be a policy unique to the Scions themselves.
Considering the quantity of tempered individuals and the political/financial nature of the region, execution was the most reasonable solution. To take a 'wait and see' approach consumes money, manpower and other resources the city can barely afford to its normal citizens and puts the populace at risk should they escape custody.
RE: The effects of Tempering - Steel Wolf - 02-12-2014
(02-12-2014, 03:04 PM)Asgarn Wrote: Clearly, his short stature played to a disadvantage when he found himself directly below Titans loincloth.
I'm a Roegadyn and I'm below Titan's loincloth. Nobody is safe. o.o
RE: The effects of Tempering - Yssen - 02-12-2014
Slooooow it down a sec. There is something that need clarification.Â
You do not need the Echo to fight a Primal. You need the Echo to avoid being tempered by a Primal. While all of the Primals can temper, not all of them choose to do so. Titan only tempers Kobolds, and Rahmu only Slyphs (so far as we have seen, this may change). Garuda, also only tempers Ixal, as she has a disdain for those who are not bird people. Of the Primals that we know of thus far, only Ifrit and Leviathan temper people outside of their associated Beast Tribe. Ifrit seems to temper whoever he can get his hands on. Leviathan has pirates and such that are tempered to serve him just as loyally as the Sahagin.Â
It is worth mentioning Siren as well. Whatever the heck she is (jury may still be out on that one), she certainly enthralls people to her crazy sing song will.
Just wanted to point out the slight leap of logic before things went too far down the "have to have the Echo to fight Primals" road. Do not HAVE to have it. Just want to have it if a Primal decides you would make a better slave than opponent.Â
Stuff to consider. Yar.
RE: The effects of Tempering - McBeefâ„¢ - 02-12-2014
One thing I've noticed from the Amal beast quests, is that tempering is a variable thing. During the questline you come upon a person who was "Baked too long" in the fires of Ifrits flames, and turned out quite crazy. However the main antagonist of the questline is quite sane and logical, so much so that he doesn't seem any different than any other evil henchman.
RE: The effects of Tempering - Kage - 02-12-2014
From my perspective though, the only beasts who were tempered were Sylphs. I didn't notice Titan having any effect like that on the kobolds. That are faced.