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+--- Thread: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? (/showthread.php?tid=4467)
Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Moondoggie - 09-11-2013
What i mean is how the NPC's are represented. Like 90% of Miqo'te women are either prostitutes,slaves,erotic dancers or just all three. There is even a fate where you escort a Miqo'te prostitute to her customer who then shows his pleasure with a rude gesture. Does anyone else find it a little...I dunno annoying? XD
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Bloodtruffle - 09-11-2013
And just the other day my friends and I were discussing where the "Sexual Content" ESRB comes from. I guess I know why nowÂ
It sounds like Miqo'te females are suffering from Twi'lek syndrome.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Quuyn - 09-11-2013
Runs to the hills before the debate of sexualization in video games erupts.
In seriousness, I'm not really one to talk considering I'm a man, and of all things my sexuality is astronomically unfitting to even talk on it. However, the way I usually view it is from a lore perspective. It's true it could just be fan service, in fact it's most likely it is! But in this 'world' and 'time period' I guess it's just part of their society. To my understanding, Miqo'te tribes are few and far between, so the ones who live in cities, maaybe are shunned by race? And are left to the streets and stuff.
I think it's based on the idea that Miqo'te as a race aren't as publicly accepted as the rest, and they've been denied employment and such. Of course I have absolutely nooo idea and haven't really read lore to support that. That's just what I assume.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Moondoggie - 09-11-2013
Not so much a debate on sexualization in games that never bothered me i just hate how one race gets picked on. Everyone else when you look at the females have all walks of life but it's like "oh we have a cat girl race? Make them all strippers and prostitutes!"
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Adolar - 09-11-2013
There's a lot of sexual references in this game. Like, A LOT. There's quite a bit of implied rape as well...including Lalafells (-shudder-). I'm not particularly bothered by it but it is surprising the sheer amount of lewd NPC dialogue coming from a SE game.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Oroban - 09-11-2013
I...have not had the misfortune of seeing that FATE myself, but it seems like a really, really poor handling of the dominant animal pack structure the Seekers of the Sun have going on. I mean, when you have an entire half of a species whose only male surnames mean "Guy who has sex with all the women" and "Everyone else", it leaves a lot of room for interpretation, both good and bad.
tldr: Where's my quests with sexy Roegadyn women. :<
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - K'nahli - 09-11-2013
Yes I am, and that FATE pissed me off a little to be honest(why a Roeg of all races...?).
Frankly though, that FATE is the only bad thing I have seen. I didn't make a link with the exotic dancing because I didn't find it demeaning but I heard on a linkshell a couple of days ago that Sunseekers(or all Miqos, not sure) were implied to be the type to sleep about eagerly, according to Limsan NPCs. I got annoyed at that and went seeking evidence but didn't find any before I got distracted by the fishing guild, but still.
Whatever about fan service, I was never bothered by courtesans or anything elsewhere but the fact that "all" Miqo'tes are portrayed under that light bothers me a bit. Even if its just a stereotype its not one I'd like associated with such a nice and whimsical(looking at their emotes) race ;;
Quote: OrobanI...have not had the misfortune of seeing that FATE myself, but it seems like a really, really poor handling of the dominant animal pack structure the Seekers of the Sun have going on. I mean, when you have an entire half of a species whose only male surnames mean "Guy who has sex with all the women" and "Everyone else", it leaves a lot of room for interpretation, both good and bad.
tldr: Where's my quests with sexy Roegadyn women. :<
I don't see anything wrong with the cultural methodology. Just because its not anything relatable to modern day society or hy'urs doesn't mean its bad. Sunseeker females don't just readily sleep with the nuhn like a pack of sex slaves either. Its just a mating process to ensure strong young.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - FreelanceWizard - 09-11-2013
(09-11-2013, 08:08 PM)Moondoggie Wrote: What i mean is how the NPC's are represented. Like 90% of Miqo'te women are either prostitutes,slaves,erotic dancers or just all three. There is even a fate where you escort a Miqo'te prostitute to her customer who then shows his pleasure with a rude gesture. Does anyone else find it a little...I dunno annoying? XD
As a player, I'm not a huge fan of it, as it tends, IMO, to contradict the lore of miqo'te being strong, independent hunters whose culture is built largely on a continuing quest for excellence. However, it is what it is, I guess. The best implication I can draw is that miqo'te for whatever reason (difficulty adapting to city-state culture, enterprising spirit, a lack of qualms about sexuality) tend to find being sex workers a relatively easy thing.
IC, L'yhta is exceedingly displeased at these sorts of miqo'te, and will readily talk someone's ear off on how miqo'te females debase themselves and that those who support it (by hiring miqo'te dancers or prostitutes) are perpetuating a foul system, etc. She looks very far down upon these miqo'te, going so far as to recently call them "worthless strumpets". It's a hot button topic for her and one where she's delightfully mean and judgmental.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - K'nahli - 09-11-2013
(09-11-2013, 08:34 PM)FreelanceWizard Wrote:(09-11-2013, 08:08 PM)Moondoggie Wrote: What i mean is how the NPC's are represented. Like 90% of Miqo'te women are either prostitutes,slaves,erotic dancers or just all three. There is even a fate where you escort a Miqo'te prostitute to her customer who then shows his pleasure with a rude gesture. Does anyone else find it a little...I dunno annoying? XD
As a player, I'm not a huge fan of it, as it tends, IMO, to contradict the lore of miqo'te being strong, independent hunters whose culture is built largely on a continuing quest for excellence. However, it is what it is, I guess. The best implication I can draw is that miqo'te for whatever reason (difficulty adapting to city-state culture, enterprising spirit, a lack of qualms about sexuality) tend to find being sex workers a relatively easy thing.
IC, L'yhta is exceedingly displeased at these sorts of miqo'te, and will readily talk someone's ear off on how miqo'te females debase themselves and that those who support it (by hiring miqo'te dancers or prostitutes) are perpetuating a foul system, etc. She looks very far down upon these miqo'te, going so far as to recently call them "worthless strumpets". It's a hot button topic for her and one where she's delightfully mean and judgmental.
I like your character. Lets be friends.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Sigyn Shieldbreaker - 09-11-2013
(09-11-2013, 08:24 PM)Oroban Wrote: I...have not had the misfortune of seeing that FATE myself, but it seems like a really, really poor handling of the dominant animal pack structure the Seekers of the Sun have going on. I mean, when you have an entire half of a species whose only male surnames mean "Guy who has sex with all the women" and "Everyone else", it leaves a lot of room for interpretation, both good and bad.
tldr: Where's my quests with sexy Roegadyn women. :<
 I'll give you a quest!
 Obtain one dozen cotton shirts for me.
 Your reward is to be announced. When... When I figure out what I can give. o.o
 Seriously, though, I was thinking of Twi'leks too. I hadn't noticed a lot of sexual implications otherwise, but Miqo'tes -are- (sadly) in my opinion one of the best looking races in motion. Their running is cute. Their dancing is cute. Their shoujo bodies are cute. Maybe since SE knew they were going to appeal to a lot of people (and they are a predominantly female race) they decided to go with that theme. Though it doesn't seem like Keeper personalities, at least, go along with that.
 Also, I guess I have to keep in mind that not all female-predominant races are like Amazons or Nelfs. And with seekers at least, it seems many females would be in tribes sharing only one male so sexuality might be something that isn't as important to them, making them capable of performing such functions without having as much of an issue with it as, say, a -particularly- angry Roegadyn.
I don't mind it at all, really. Of course, I don't see exotic dancing and prostitution as needing to be something that only perverted or destitute people do. In cultures long past, including the Japanese culture, entertainers and even prostitutes were (at times) treated -really- well and they had a pretty high social status. In fact, it was one of the few ways you could actually advance as a woman or as anyone considering the sort of social systems they had that frowned upon people moving out of their family's line of work or lack thereof. A woman's sexuality is a power in a sense and many Miqo'tes likely realize that kind of power they have of both males of their race and males of other races and how they can use it to their advantage not only to make good money without having to break their backs but manipulating others for their own devices.
Prostitution, we must remember, is one of the oldest jobs in history and there have been a number of individual women in that social group, especially in Asia, to make great (by great, I mean big) names for themselves and actually positively impact the lives of many other women who may not have been as fortunate. Sex for money might not seem so great to us now, it might seem it would be better to slave your life away at McDonald's, but back in the old days it was A. Find a relatively safe, clean brothel and even get a chance at a really swanky one where you could pick your clients or B. Be taken against your will and possibly killed or kidnapped and stolen anyway for a lot of women. The first seems much more appealing out of the two and you couldn't just go out and get a job in a lot of civilizations as a women of any social status.
I think characters should be able to have that diversity and I've seen very very few in all my years RPing. Why not have a character like Inara from Firefly who is a great Companion who helps people more emotionally and psychologically, even more than physically? Why not have a girl from the slums wanting to climb to the top by using her looks instead of cooking or cleaning and being harassed anyway? Is it too Mary-Sueish?
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Cato - 09-11-2013
The thing that irritates me about the infamous Costa del Sol F.A.T.E involving the female miqo'te courtesan isn't that she's presented as being a harlot but...that she's prepared to sleep with a roegadyn of all things. Thankfully there's some solid insight into a more serious and tribal side of miqo'te life linked to the main story quests, though I feel as if the 'hahaha look how loose miqo'te women are' angle is a tad overplayed.
I also recall two females fawning over a hyur highlander in Highbridge yet there's very few examples of miq'ote showing an interest in their own race. What's worse is the amount of player characters portraying their miqo'te as harlots - it certainly isn't doing much to challenge the negative stereotyping that players of the race are subjected to.Â
That's not to say I'm against such themes being pursued, but they need to be done tastefully and not just focused disproportionately upon a specific race.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Oroban - 09-11-2013
(09-11-2013, 08:30 PM)K Wrote: Yes I am, and that FATE pissed me off a little to be honest(why a Roeg of all races...?).Oh, no, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the culture in any way is flawed. I'm saying that it's being implemented in a silly way that's detrimental to the actual society itself. As was already mentioned in this thread, they're hunters who care about strength, and as you said, strong offspring. It makes sense, and it has all sorts of potential. It's disappointing to see it squandered.
Frankly though, that FATE is the only bad thing I have seen. I didn't make a link with the exotic dancing because I didn't find it demeaning but I heard on a linkshell a couple of days ago that Sunseekers(or all Miqos, not sure) were implied to be the type to sleep about eagerly, according to Limsan NPCs. I got annoyed at that and went seeking evidence but didn't find any before I got distracted by the fishing guild, but still.
Whatever about fan service, I was never bothered by courtesans or anything elsewhere but the fact that "all" Miqo'tes are portrayed under that light bothers me a bit. Even if its just a stereotype its not one I'd like associated with such a nice and whimsical(looking at their emotes) race ;;
Quote: Â Â OrobanI...have not had the misfortune of seeing that FATE myself, but it seems like a really, really poor handling of the dominant animal pack structure the Seekers of the Sun have going on. I mean, when you have an entire half of a species whose only male surnames mean "Guy who has sex with all the women" and "Everyone else", it leaves a lot of room for interpretation, both good and bad.
  tldr: Where's my quests with sexy Roegadyn women. :<
I don't see anything wrong with the cultural methodology. Just because its not anything relatable to modern day society or hy'urs doesn't mean its bad. Sunseeker females don't just readily sleep with the nuhn like a pack of sex slaves either. Its just a mating process to ensure strong young.
And my character wouldn't approve, but...well shit, he's sort of a prude, so he'd probably be bothered by the entire situation without even getting into the minutiae.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - sanguineFenrir - 09-11-2013
As an asexual (having no interest in those matters, nor nudity) the constant swimsuits and such elicit reactions ranging from indifference to annoyance. Since my character is a Miqo'te, it greatly upsets me to see a lot of NPCs portrayed in that manner (male or female.) Part of the reason for the differences in my character's backstory is to avoid the whole tribal situation and the pressure to breed (or being a minority among females.) There's a "commander" NPC whose unit consists of two other female Miqo'te, and their dialogue is full of innuendo.
Although I'm not opposed to purely romantic relationships, it does really bother me when people flirt with me/my character ICly or OOCly. I've learned to cope with this by incorporating it into my RP to a degree (Kevaraan, along with one of his close friends, abhors the treatment of Miqo'te as "exotic house pets" or toys.Â
Somewhat related to the topic is the fact that I hate the whole fanservice aspect of nekomimi as is. I like the vaguely "native" feel of Miqo'te and the animalistic dynamic, but I hate the harem tribes and the oversexualized portrayal of the NPCs. I want to tap into my character's nature, but I also want him to be more than a human with cat ears and a tail. I saw a female Miqo'te NPC whose sentences were peppered with "meow." Please, no.
 (If a suitable, more beastly race comes along. I might reroll and find some way to work that into my RP, but that's up in the air.)
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - Ildur - 09-11-2013
Not all Miqo'te are despicted that way, though. There's a number of Miqo'te soliders in the Maelstorm who hand out quests. The commander of that Company is in fact a female Miqo'te. There's also the U tribe in the Sagolii Desert, where most females are huntresses. In the Black Shroud, you have the Coeurlclaw Poachers, who are mostly females too. Though in those two last cases we have the Unfortunate Implication of them being patriarchal societies: in the U tribe, the only position of power seems to be the Nunh (which kind of goes a bit against lore, ironically) and the other two males act as 'wise men' and sub-leaders. In the case of the Poachers, you get a FATE where a male names himself "King" and you have to slay him. Which, again, is a bit odd because the lore we had stablished Moon Keepers as being matriarchal.
We could argue that in those case there's the justification that tribal Miqo'te society is probably much less advanced and modern that those of the city-states, so I guess nobody would be surprised.
The problem with Miqo'te concubines seems to be mostly a problem in the Ul'dahn regions and Costa del Sol, where the mentioned FATE takes place. Though if you look around the town and in far to the north, you'll see there are some Roegadyn females around, too. Of course, they are outnumbered by Hyur and Miqo'te females.
All things considered, I'd say it's a stupid case of fanservice.
RE: Does anyone else get kind of annoyed at how Miqo'te are represented in the world? - K'nahli - 09-11-2013
I don't think its a matter of them not seeing sex as a big deal but rather that their cultural upbringing leads them to have tendencies and sexual attraction to stronger males.
@Siobhain
And while that is true, I don't think that if we were to use the example of said FATE then we can really see it as an empowering profession over a demeaning attempt at fan service.
"Don't worry, milord/master.. we have ALL night"
Ugh... I'm just really defensive since my main is a miqo'te. In actual fact, I have a hyur who will be well acquainted with courtesans in his spare time and its not like I am saying that miqo'tes shouldn't be courtesans... but as was pointed out by a few people already, it seems to be a strong theme that they are the 'favourite' race to be picked on for this particular side of things which is not something I am fond of.
Quote: Oroban
Oh, no, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the culture in any way is flawed. I'm saying that it's being implemented in a silly way that's detrimental to the actual society itself. As was already mentioned in this thread, they're hunters who care about strength, and as you said, strong offspring. It makes sense, and it has all sorts of potential. It's disappointing to see it squandered.
And my character wouldn't approve, but...well shit, he's sort of a prude, so he'd probably be bothered by the entire situation without even getting into the minutiae.
Ahah, I see ^^ I think you are right there. While there has been many discussions on this since and I, among others, feel we can justify the way Sunseekers operate now, my initial reaction to the harem-like society was:
"Please tell me you are kidding"
*sigh*