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Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view (/showthread.php?tid=2961)

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RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - growly beast - 07-23-2013

(07-23-2013, 03:01 PM)Khaze Wrote:
(07-23-2013, 03:00 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(07-23-2013, 01:04 PM)Rhynka Wrote: Mostly it occurs in skype chat

So...

... is there some kind of community skype chat or something? o.0
There is but I don't remember seeing much chat about Miqo'te sex, Add Tulcaondo to skype and I'll add you to the chat.

There is a another Skype chat called "Unmoderated Fuck Chat" which... well, it's not as bad as it sounds, and as the title implies it doesn't necessarily strictly pertain to FFXIV at all times, it's just a dirtier version of the FFXIV RP chat where people swear a lot and link silly shit. And by dirty I don't mean ERP - no RP ever goes on. If anything, I guess that's where it could have occurred? Not like it's completely unwarranted there.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Naunet - 07-23-2013

(07-23-2013, 03:07 PM)growly beast Wrote: There is a another Skype chat called "Unmoderated Fuck Chat" which... well, it's not as bad as it sounds, and as the title implies it doesn't necessarily strictly pertain to FFXIV at all times, it's just a dirtier version of the FFXIV RP chat where people swear a lot and link silly shit. And by dirty I don't mean ERP - no RP ever goes on. If anything, I guess that's where it could have occurred? Not like it's completely unwarranted there.

Is swearing not allowed in the other chat or something? XD

I didn't ask about the presence of a skype chat because I was suspicious about any goings on or anything, though, to be clear. I just had no clue there was a community chat.

Not sure how comfortable I am giving out my real name, though, as that's what my Skype account uses. I'll think about it.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Zyrusticae - 07-23-2013

Edit: You know what? Nevermind. This thread has been poisoned enough already. I have nothing else to contribute, so I'm bowing out (for now).

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - doctorgalactic - 07-23-2013

(07-23-2013, 12:52 PM)growly beast Wrote: Well. I was all excited to see where this discussion would go, but it kinda feels like it's been hijacked by attempts to police what people talk about and do. It's making me uncomfortable to read and really feels like borderline flaming.

So much for that.
This.  +1

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Razamir Lahoka - 07-23-2013

I wont be posting here anymore after this.

We (meaning me and my wife  ie Razamir and Rhynka) have made an apology to the people we have offended on here as we never meant to.

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=3035&pid=37254#pid37254

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Myxie Tryxle - 07-23-2013

(07-23-2013, 08:58 AM)Callipygian Wrote: Doing a little bit of internet research, I came up with the following numbers. Real-world cats have senses of smell that are roughly 14 times as acute as humans. For wolves, their sense of smell jumps to 100 times the strength of humans (about 7 times more powerful than cats). Bloodhounds are the terrestrial kings. Their sense of smell is around 300 times more powerful than humans (3 times that of wolves and 20 times that of cats).

To clarify what I actually said in that post. I didn't include lions on the list of animals because I couldn't find any source to tell me "Lion sense of smell is X times stronger than humans." I suppose it is slightly implied by the comparisons, but I never stated explicitly that Miqo'te sense of smell should be on par with house cats. In fact....

(07-23-2013, 08:58 AM)Callipygian Wrote: If we consider the second quote as giving a more reasonable interpretation for a Miqo'te to have a sense of smell somewhere in the real world cat to wolf range and limited the capability of the trait to something along the lines of the scent feat from D&D 3.5, I think that would be more reasonable.

Here I assert that I would be cool with someone playing a character whose scent capabilities fall anywhere within the range between house cats and wolves. In D&D, a character can absolutely develop a sense of smell capable of tracking someone by smell, it just requires them to expend two of their feats and invest skill points in survival/wilderness lore, and skill penalties accrue for every hour since the scent trail was laid. Since those two feats and skill points are a limited resource, it's balanced by the fact that you're giving up an opportunity for attack feats or stealth skills by improving it. If you can find some way to do that in an MMO where we don't have RP character sheets or stat points to balance between a large number of character options, I personally would be cool with it.

This will be the last I say about the senses argument on this thread. I'll be moving this discussion to the thread Khaze'to and Alothia started here.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Jonexe - 07-23-2013

(07-23-2013, 03:12 PM)Naunet Wrote:
(07-23-2013, 03:07 PM)growly beast Wrote: There is a another Skype chat called "Unmoderated Fuck Chat" which... well, it's not as bad as it sounds, and as the title implies it doesn't necessarily strictly pertain to FFXIV at all times, it's just a dirtier version of the FFXIV RP chat where people swear a lot and link silly shit. And by dirty I don't mean ERP - no RP ever goes on. If anything, I guess that's where it could have occurred? Not like it's completely unwarranted there.

Is swearing not allowed in the other chat or something? XD

I didn't ask about the presence of a skype chat because I was suspicious about any goings on or anything, though, to be clear. I just had no clue there was a community chat.

Not sure how comfortable I am giving out my real name, though, as that's what my Skype account uses. I'll think about it.

Just so you know, you can modify your display name for Skype!

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Kyatai - 07-23-2013

(07-23-2013, 03:30 PM)doctorgalactic Wrote:
(07-23-2013, 12:52 PM)growly beast Wrote: Well. I was all excited to see where this discussion would go, but it kinda feels like it's been hijacked by attempts to police what people talk about and do. It's making me uncomfortable to read and really feels like borderline flaming.

So much for that.
This.  +1
Agreed. I apologized for my misunderstanding that (apparently) started all this shit on the last post of page 5 I think? and even went so far as to comment on the validity of the scent/eye/stamina/etc comments brought up, offering a few thoughts myself.

I will say I take offense to my comment about the 'nose like hounds' discussion being 'boring' because 1.) that was the very thing I apologized for, as I thought it was a physical description (and therefore a joke (aka 'omg guys- can we talk about ANYTHING but sex here?! Here... lets talk noses!')) and 2.) it is therefore irrelevant to being constantly brought up as part of an effort to make a point. Especially one filled with such vitrol that had, up until then, been a very calm and mature discourse.

Razamir, your contributions have not been offensive, IMHO. No reason to apologize, though thank you for doing so. Smile

So. Back to the discussion at hand...
This thread has become a mix of discussing both the biological and cultural aspects of what it might mean to play a Miqo'te. I agree that perhaps we should either split the conversation here, or simply make a post with a summary of thoughts regarding both biological and cultural on separate threads and let 'er rip.
I think discussions like this are great for the overall development of a well-rounded and dynamic Miqo'te.

+1 the Community at large

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Spiritual Machine - 07-24-2013

I'm not sure that separate discussions are necessary at this point. Especially not now when it appears that discussion in general has gotten a tad derailed.

But also because the discussion has very little to do with biology on a technical level and a lot more to do with biology as it relates to Miqo'te society. They aren't different discussions and never were. Biological aspects of mating inform to the general perspective of the race, which informs to society, which informs to trends in the racial culture.

I saw a lot of confusing the topic in the last few pages, as well as confusing what the purpose of this thread was in the first place. I'd like to see the discussion get back on track.


I saw people talk about the Seekers as if their society was patriarchal, but is it really? Nuhn are rarely leaders, according to the lore--their position as breeding males is viewed by the other Miqo'te as a responsibility, as opposed to a right.

The Seekers of the Sun are only seen as having a more patriarchal society when compared to the Keepers of the Moon. The belief of the Seekers is that males are the source of life in the tribe (compare with numerous real-world cultures that view women as the source of new life).

And just like in the real world, being the source of life doesn't automatically make you entitled to anything except being used to make new life.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Miqo'te/Naming#Male

You can see this in how renegade nuhn usually make out when they try to start their own tribes. New tribes aren't said to die out because of conflicts with other nuhn, but because of a lack of interested females.

Seeker tribes aren't entirely akin to lion tribes, no. I don't believe that was an implication anyone was making. Rather, lion tribes are a good place to start when understanding Miqo'te society and how it differs from the sort of strategies common among primates. Funny enough, even lion mating requires a bit of consent from the female...

I think saying that Miqo'te should be entirely considered as cats or entirely considered as humans as we know them is a bit narrow-minded. This thread started off as a guideline into the ways Miqo'te might work based on similar societies among felines in nature. But Miqo'te are obviously not any of these felines. Their society is unique, as is their nature and mindset. So no single comparison will fully characterize them--this thread is just a good place to start.

Likewise, even a city-born Miqo'te is not just going to be a human with funny ears and a tail, and taking the lazy way out without considering how Miqo'te are different from their neighbors isn't taking full advantage of the unique perspective of this non-human race. They might have different urges, different behaviors ingrained by generations of breeding patterns among their ancestors, and personality traits unique to the race despite what life they are born into.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Miqo%27te#Demeanor

The inclination of Miqo'te to keep to themselves and their companions, to maintain a safe little family or "tribe" structure, as well as the particular traits of each clan, these are all probably ingrained into the genes of the race, and ought not be ignored if only for how much more interesting it is to have a perspective in roleplay that isn't generically "human".

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Miqo%27te#Physiology

Not to mention that a Miqo'te character would just see and interact with the world differently than other races just by default. Their superior noses would be their most trusted sense, and would change how they perceive the world and characterize the things the observe. Their sense of balance and strength and agility, their sleep cycles, their diets, the fact that their ears are on top of their heads and they have tails--all of these things change how they interact with the world and what they're able to see of it.


Just imagine how different your life would be if you were missing a leg, or an eye, or if your eyes were better or worse than they are, or if you were a vegan. No, your personality wouldn't change, but your goals, habits, behaviors, those would change to some degree.

Now look at everything that makes a Miqo'te different from a Hyur, even all the sex stuff. (Yes, it can be useful for more than just ERP.)

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Kyatai - 07-24-2013

Nicely said, Spiritual.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - AkhutaiAngura - 07-27-2013

So, I've read through -most- of the thread, and most of what I'd have to say in defense of the topic being discussed has been said. Awesome.

Now.. A few things I'd consider that I haven't seen.. It seems most people are considering the Nunh position to be important, like.. Something that the Miqo'te revere, whether they be male or female. There was mention early on that the males would hold some sort of 'ownership' over their harem as well.

I've also seen.. Kyatai positioning that females could view breeding as a duty. Something they have to do because it's life, for them.

Instead, I'd offer that it's the males who view it as a duty.. It almost sounds like a comparison to some Drow societies in the Forgotten Realms worlds. As in, a matriarchal society in which males are rarely viewed as anything more than breeding stock. A female wants children, she goes to the Nunh and has children. This would put the Nunh into a position similar to a desk clerk at a sperm bank.

Now, my reasoning for why other males would want this position... Consider it as any other job. There's a position open at Location, so person A and B apply. The one with the best attributes gets the job.. It'd be a similar situation. Miqo'te A is a Nunh, meaning he's treated to a relative life of luxury.. Afterall, the females would want their breeding stock to be well taken care of. 

I hope that all makes sense. Basically, all I'm doing, is shifting the 'duty' from the female to the male.

Edit: After posting, I scrolled up to finish reading Spiritual's post.. And find that he stated most of what I did, better than what I did. +1 to you! ^.^

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - EightBitRed - 09-01-2013

I don't technically dwell on this part of the Miqo'te simply because it all depends on who controlling the female question in-game RP. The way I run my tribe, especially if it's female, is to just let her decide what it's the right time to dwell on the specific part of her character's life cycle. What matters most, if you wanna be realistic, is character development and bonds. For me I find it more sense for my character, a tribe leader despite being new at this, to bond with his little harem and to protect/help/provide the needs and items of his tribe to grow stronger and also strengthen the clan in general.

For me I believe every Miqo'te runs their tribe differently, for example if my Miqo'te defeated a Nunh and he had offsprings, I highly doubt he would kill their off springs. My character not very traditional, and would either offer them to stay or to leave. Alex (Ah') would give them a choice, because he believes everyone deserves one rather then just accepting it and shove it down their throat. But of course again we're talking about how both Rp'er feel about it, realistic or not, the point is to have fun with the whole thing. But it would be awesome to own a Harem...

If I do have more females in my tribe then there are males, you best believe I'll make them Amazon monsters~ Tongue

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Sigyn Shieldbreaker - 09-01-2013

I enjoyed reading this. I spent a lot of time worrying about anthropology in college, and this theory doesn't seem to conflict even with human groups made up of a high female/low male population. Monogamy is normal for Westerners and, at times, was inflicted on other cultures rather than allowing them to follow the 'norm'. There was some old area in China, slips my mind which, where women never married and instead took on suitors who would impregnate them and then go about their merry way, leaving the woman with all her male relatives to raise the child, I suppose, in part to avoid too many inbreeding issues. This practice was actually part of their religion, or at least covered in their texts and stories. China actually refused to allow trade to be made with this small society until they agreed to settle up into pairs, so the culture more or less disintegrated as people were forced to change some centuries of cultural reasoning or leave their homes.

Also in India, the Middle East, and other parts of Asia and even Europe. Humans, at least, and honestly Miqo'tes can only be related to the modern human understanding of romance and relationships based on their RPers or interpreters personal view unless a lot more information is given. Our species aren't really built to be monogamous by nature, if I understand. Our hormones would normally dictate what we're physically attracted to if our social upbringing and emotions didn't come into play. It's all about genetic diversity; monogamy is a luxury for those with enough of both genders to settle up into single-pair groups and, sometimes, a necessity in terms of the size and breadth of our social groups and environment. Can't just have everyone having everyone all willy-nilly when 'coveting thy neighbor's wife' could easily create conflicts of interest in communities with nobles, aristocrats, or any other form of a caste system.

So I appreciate this outline and I would think it would be acceptable as a 'norm' rather than the exception to the rule, but alas, everyone is going to differ in their opinions and I'm not a-playin' a Miqo. I just think, given the setting, exclusive pairings with a 50 female to 1 male ratio would only harm the race overall depending on... what...? Gestational periods and whether or not Miqo's give birth in litters? Lol.

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Velkyron - 09-01-2013

...no disrespect to anyone in this thread, but...what is the point of this?  In a game where there is a pretty clear secular outlook on things (with a few notable exceptions, such as the Ishgardians), why does something that only have relevance to a rather personal part of Mi'quote life have such a rather lengthy and thorough thread on the subject which basically revolves around sex?

While I can gather that a good foundation of their culture is partially based on this, I don't quite understand much point of it at all.  I see this thread for no other race in this forum: only the Mi'quote.  Why?  Are us Roegadyn players not good enough?  Would Lallafel be considered too weird?  Hyur too mundane and elezen be having too much of the pointy ears?

While some of the conjecture is interesting, I really don't see the point of it.

Also:

Quote:Upon joining a grand company, one of the options a player can take when asked if he’s sure about his choice is "I'll kill all of our enemies and eat their babies!"  For the other races, this could be interpreted as the character being a bloodthirsty barbarian, but for Seekers of the Sun, it may just be a fact of life.

W-What?

RE: Miqo’te Mating Strategies Explored: a biologist’s point of view - Uther - 09-01-2013

(09-01-2013, 01:18 PM)Velkyron Wrote: While some of the conjecture is interesting, I really don't see the point of it.
First of all, +1'ing this.

Yeah, the obsession with miqo'te doing it is a little weird to me. You might be putting way more thought into it than Square intended, and while I'm all for exploring different aspects of cultures and whatnot, it's strange to me that this one is by far the most popular. 

Just an observation.