+- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18)
+-- Forum: Community (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=8)
+--- Forum: RP Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: [Discussion] Races, and Physical Stats (/showthread.php?tid=20997)
Races, and Physical Stats - Stormblade - 11-26-2017
This was brought up in another topic, but do you roleplay the different races as having different physical capabilities (miqo'te able to jump higher and be more agile than hyur) or as basically the same (your lalafell can arm-wrestle a roegadyn and win at least half the time)?
My first instinct would be toward differences - it seems logical to me that a roegadyn would always win in terms of physical strength against the other races unless magic is involved, a miqo'te probably has the best night vision and is very agile/flexible, lalafell are quick and can easily hide from the larger races, hyur would be jack-of-all, master-of-none, Au Ra likely have a natural toughness thanks to their scales, etc.
But I can see where that would impose limitations on people and is contrary to some scenes from the game - we see a lalafell fighting seemingly evenly with a hyur in the pugilism arena, most fighting is done with aether-enhancement which would make muscles potentially meaningless, people enjoy have a character that looks slender but is stronger than visibly muscular character, and so forth.
What do other people think? What do you usually see played out, IRP? Whether it be people competing in a foot race, or arm-wrestling, or an RP fight where it comes down to a contest of strength or agility?
RE: Races, and Physical Stats - Valence - 11-26-2017
As I said in the other post, I will always take into account what the lore tells us for fact.
A xaela will always beat a roegadyn in sheer physical strength alone. This is lore.Â
That doesn't mean that the roegadyn's weight will not be higher though, but since the lore doesn't covers that and what it implies, I'll try not to focus too much on it. However yes, if I wanted to treat it the most seriously possible, a roe could play on his weight a lot. And when it doesn't come to weapons of a certain size, at equal skill, weight will most of the time win, no matter the physical strength.
We can take the case of the miqo'te, for which the physical differences are the most extensively covered into the lore:
- Culture oriented around physical talents (lorebook: ambiguous how much it affects on genes, but logically it should over time with evolution).
- Seekers: wiry strength (lorebook), surpassing agility (lorebook), huge stamina (lorebook). Adept at climbing and diving (lorebook).
- Keepers: Similar physical stature than Seekers except for their stamina (lorebook), fierce strength of will and unerring instincts/keen intuition (lorebook).
Since I'm playing one, I can hardly forsake all those differences for the sake of "racial stats don't matter". Some of them at least, actually do in the lore.
So I guess I would fall into the first category, at least for the differences in physical perks of each race described in lore (Lalafell's hearing, etc). The rest is a lot about suspension of disbelief, which is of course always source of debates.
Note: trying to answer that from a lore perspective since you posted into the lore section, but it might be more appropriate for the RP discussion forum...
RE: Races, and Physical Stats - Stormblade - 11-26-2017
Is a Xaela's strength something mentioned in the lore book? I wouldn't have thought it would be that high, just by looking at them.
Good point, though - I probably should've posted this in the RP section. It would probably be bad to just repost it again in that forum, though, right?
RE: Races, and Physical Stats - Unnamed Mercenary - 11-26-2017
(11-26-2017, 10:32 AM)Stormblade Wrote: Is a Xaela's strength something mentioned in the lore book? I wouldn't have thought it would be that high, just by looking at them.
Good point, though - I probably should've posted this in the RP section. It would probably be bad to just repost it again in that forum, though, right?
I've moved the thread since this appears to be more an opinion matter than something showing cited sources/references.
RE: Races, and Physical Stats - Sounsyy - 11-26-2017
(11-26-2017, 10:32 AM)Stormblade Wrote: Is a Xaela's strength something mentioned in the lore book? I wouldn't have thought it would be that high, just by looking at them.
It is, yep.
Encyclopedia Eorzea Wrote:In contrast to the brilliant white scales of the Raen, the Xaela, children of the Dusk Mother, take pride in their scales of lustrous black. While their size and stature is almost identical to that of the Raen, their physical strength, hardened by generations of war and conflict, far outstrips that of other races.
As far as RP goes, physical differences and racial stats only really matter when you and your RP partner want them to matter. If it's important to the scene, definitely make use of them! If the focus of the RP is combat on equal footing (roll-based fight tourneys, for example) then racial stats might not come into it unless you and your partner agree on the rules. In lore, a Lalafell lacks the brute physical strength of a Roegadyn, yet both Lalafell and Roegadyn Brass Blades and Amajina miners exist. It's no fun to say that a Lalafell will always lose to a Roegadyn, but a Lalafell might face a particular obstacle quite differently than a Roegadyn. So agreeing with your RP partner how to best apply those racial stats might be more fun for both people involved. A Lalafell is more agile than a Roegadyn, and a Roegadyn would have a harder time striking/defending against a target so low to the ground.
A Duskwight or a Plainsfolk in a bar might overhear a whispered conversation as far as lore is concerned, but involving yourself in another's RP is best agreed upon beforehand, as another example. If a nearby party doesn't really wish to be overheard or is RPing a private scene, then you probably shouldn't RP as overhearing it.
I guess what I'm getting at is: there are noticeable differences between the races and their "stats" so to speak, but it's more important that everyone in a scene communicates how those racial strengths get played out so it's fun for everyone and doesn't come off as power/meta-gaming. Equal, unless otherwise agreed upon.
RE: Races, and Physical Stats - Stormblade - 11-26-2017
Thanks!
I agree, that using the physical differences is best done when agreed by all parties. I was just wondering how often people actually use any differences in their roleplay, or if they deliberately treat the races as on equal ground in terms of strength and hearing and so forth.
Your breakdown is really interesting, though - I didn't know that Hellsguard Roegadyn were actually great mages, of all things. I had been thinking about trying out a scholar-type character, and it sounds like that might actually work with a Roe - which would be nice, since you don't see them very often.
RE: Races, and Physical Stats - Edric W. - 11-26-2017
The way I see it, they're all relatively equal in terms of fighting. Any pros they have are countered by cons that come with them and vice versa. These is just my thoughts, and I'm sure someone will correct me or disagree.
Take everyone's favourite race, for example. Lalafell are physically the weakest, but I imagine they're pretty crafty when they have to be. The ones with good hearing would be able to hear any ambushes or charges coming from a while away, so surprises wouldn't really work on them. I imagine trying to hit a moving Lalafell with a bow or spell would be near impossible as well, so if they had something like a crossbow (probably couldn't get a very high draw strength on a bow that small) and a lot of cover, they could do very well with guerilla tactics.
Even just in a one-on-one fight though, if they had pretty much any weapon they could hit someone in the shins, break their toes, slip through their legs and put a rapier/spear through a major artery in the legs, or just smack a male opponent in the pills. Defensively, it would be hard to hit them if they were agile enough and had good reaction times, larger weapons being a hindrance when they get close, and smaller ones/fists possibly not being able to reach them even when they're at your feet.
RE: Races, and Physical Stats - Akeno Asukai - 11-26-2017
Ah, the age-old question...Â
For me, personally, I believe in certain scenarios and situations a characters race definitely plays a part. As it's been stated in the original post, there are some races which make sense in being better in certain areas however, the game does offer a bit of a contradiction to that belief with the use of NPC's. Generally speaking, I tend to chalk it up to Square trying to include races in all areas; meaning it is not necessarily a statement of "all races are equal here".Â
I do like that actual lore statements, made throughout the lore books and the like -- which were listed earlier in this thread, by Sounsyy; however, to take them a bit further there are a few scenarios which would play out very specific in my mind.Â
   Such as Hellsguard Magi and a Dunesfolk Magi -- not only would I consider the magics used, but generally speaking (for myself) it makes more sense that the Dunesfolk would likely win the day. I do also think/believe that a Miqo'te would/could give a Duskwight a "run for their money" when it comes to hearing. This kind of "contradiction" to the written lore also holds true for the strength of an Au Ra woman versus a female Roe. I just cannot agree that a female Xaela would win against a female Roe in a game of pure strength. That being said, I do believe a female Xaela would win against a female Raen in a game of physical strength.Â
For many of the races, I consider an individual characters backstory as they will play the most important role in a characters stats physically and mentally.
For me, personally, I believe in certain scenarios and situations a characters race definitely plays a part. As it's been stated in the original post, there are some races which make sense in being better in certain areas however, the game does offer a bit of a contradiction to that belief with the use of NPC's. Generally speaking, I tend to chalk it up to Square trying to include races in all areas; meaning it is not necessarily a statement of "all races are equal here".Â
I do like that actual lore statements, made throughout the lore books and the like -- which were listed earlier in this thread, by Sounsyy; however, to take them a bit further there are a few scenarios which would play out very specific in my mind.Â
   Such as Hellsguard Magi and a Dunesfolk Magi -- not only would I consider the magics used, but generally speaking (for myself) it makes more sense that the Dunesfolk would likely win the day. I do also think/believe that a Miqo'te would/could give a Duskwight a "run for their money" when it comes to hearing. This kind of "contradiction" to the written lore also holds true for the strength of an Au Ra woman versus a female Roe. I just cannot agree that a female Xaela would win against a female Roe in a game of pure strength. That being said, I do believe a female Xaela would win against a female Raen in a game of physical strength.Â
For many of the races, I consider an individual characters backstory as they will play the most important role in a characters stats physically and mentally.
RE: Races, and Physical Stats - Valence - 11-27-2017
(11-26-2017, 09:00 PM)Edric W. Wrote: Even just in a one-on-one fight though, if they had pretty much any weapon they could hit someone in the shins, break their toes, slip through their legs and put a rapier/spear through a major artery in the legs, or just smack a male opponent in the pills. Defensively, it would be hard to hit them if they were agile enough and had good reaction times, larger weapons being a hindrance when they get close, and smaller ones/fists possibly not being able to reach them even when they're at your feet.
Generally with armed combat (sword, etc), the one with the longest reach have a strong stake on victory, at equal skill. I'm sure a lalafell could get very crafty and roll around to reach knees and whatnot, but someone experienced would probably expect them to do it. Anyway, even if not, this puts lalafells and smaller characters at a great disadvantage.
But. Heh. It's FFXIV. It's not like they're not using huge, cumbersome weapons and other impossibly shaped stuff anyway. And do impossible feats.
(11-26-2017, 11:12 PM)Akeno Asukai Wrote: I just cannot agree that a female Xaela would win against a female Roe in a game of pure strength. That being said, I do believe a female Xaela would win against a female Raen in a game of physical strength.Â
Let's keep in mind that pure strength =/= weight though. In any unarmed fight, reach and weight will play a part, strength a bit less.
And in any armed fight with swords and shit, at equal skill dexterity will do the deed, even if strength might help you alleviate fatigue or taxing your stamina too much.
Especially with ffxiv huge cleavers of doom. I guess.