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+--- Thread: [Discussion] The State of Balmung's Lockdown (/showthread.php?tid=20964)
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - Zhavi - 12-04-2017
(12-02-2017, 03:38 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: Oh boy, as an LS/FC leader on Balmung, this entire thread gives me anxietyÂ
For us, because we're so niche in playing hardcore Immortal Flames, the lack of new blood is killer. I do hope that Balmung opens up again in the future. I love my guys and many of you have seen our achievements in running the Eorzean Alliance group, but I get all maximizing and think "But what if you could get even BIGGER and BADDER on Mateus?!". It's irrational on my part, of course.
Start headhunting, man. Even people who aren't playing IF characters, if they are even vaguely martial, convince them.
...if you already are, disregard.
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - Teadrinker - 12-04-2017
(11-30-2017, 03:47 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: If we look at Balmung's history too though, there was a LOT more open-world stuff happening in the 2014-2015 mark, it feels like. The server had just launched Summer 2013 and people were still feeling out the server and getting to know each other. Probably it felt like there was a lot more public stuff going on. FCs and Linkshells hadn't quite been made for everything and there was a lot of shuffling around. ...and at least personally for me, I had more time and the general peak hours of gameplay/RP.
I'd argue that this doesn't have so much to do with population or a population lock as much as it does with a lot of fallout happening around such open events.
That and pretty much everyone I know (or know of) has gotten busier in some way, shape or form in the past 1-2 years. Even in my case I got a lot of ideas and plans and brainstorms but time is becoming more and more of a precious commodity.
TL;DR Maybe we're all just getting old?
To be totally honest, I haven't really felt any difference in Balmung as a whole. I feel the time constraint issue but that tends to just come and go in waves and doesn't really have to do with a server lock.
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - LiadansWhisper - 12-04-2017
I think some of the ridiculous backlash definitely ran off more than a few budding talents.
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - Parth Makeo - 12-04-2017
(12-04-2017, 09:51 PM)LiadansWhisper Wrote: I think some of the ridiculous backlash definitely ran off more than a few budding talents.I'll be frank, running an event publicly back during late ARR/Early HW was both fun but frustrating. I was trying my best to include people in these story lines and various encounters (It worked in the end cause i met certain people) but part of the frustration is that NO ONE shows up. I advertised days in advance in chat channels and linkshells before and when time came, exact location and all i see maybe 1-2 interested. I even picked non-Saturdays due to grindstone...and still not many showed.
Part of the problem too is the mentality of "I have to be there from the start to be engaged/immersed" mentality of storyline RP events...even though i did self contain the events enough to be one offs without much worry and made them more call to arms. In the end 99% of them were with friends i already established with Social RP at bars or the grindstone. And even their friends join as well.
I'm ALL for making another event. Another one time (After i finish this one arc) but that day is not really looking like it will happen with grindstone taking the only day i have to make/run events.Â
Maybe i'll take the shot and give people the enjoyment of being detectives or a comical adventure where Geppetto will look for the Golden Popoto and somehow puts a crayon drawing on the board...
But for now...self contained Events with my FC until I find time.
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - Warren Castille - 12-04-2017
Not for nothing: There have been many, many instances of other events happening around the time of the Grindstone and numbers not being impacted on any side. If you have an idea that you think is good, run it when you're able and don't look back. You might miss out on some people who think something else is worth their time, but you might also draw some people who are just filling time and wish they had something else. My mantra regarding events has always been "Run for the people who are there, not for the people who aren't." If you build it, they will come.
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - maoilmhin - 12-05-2017
I don't see why Grindstone would be a reason to not hold an event on that day, unless the event organizers participate in Grindstone. Â
On Balmung, my characters don't go to the usuals (QuickSand, Grindstone, etc).  They just attend FC/LS events and random events posted on the BalCal. Attend them often enough and it's the same people that generally show up. Which does present the perception of a lack of new faces, however it is merely a side effect of failing in to the same loop as the other regulars of those events. Â
On the other server, I have to roam around and actively (IC / OOC) seek RP events.  In doing so, it makes it seem like the other server is more alive / fresh (even if it is false). It tastes that much sweeter, due to the additional effort put in to acquiring it.Â
On the bright side, RMT spam is almost non-existent on Balmung.
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - ExAtomos - 12-05-2017
Spent some time on Mateus Friday evening and the feel is very similar to Balmung (with added RMT of course.)
Something I encourage FC leaders to consider is, instead of panicking over FC membership, consider focusing on Linkshells instead. This allows RPers to still get involved in your events and plots, but does not require they leave their current home FC. Like many groups, my FC is wee bitty and we aren't actively seeking to grow in number. I actively work with other groups via their linkshells instead and this works out great. I feel it takes some self-confidence to be okay with sharing people amongst different groups. xD (I go through phases of "Oh god, we need more people in here" and fret that other, bigger groups may lure away people, but I'll learn to be okay with it at some point. xD )
eta:
(12-05-2017, 11:26 AM)maoilmhin Wrote: On Balmung, my characters don't go to the usuals (QuickSand, Grindstone, etc). They just attend FC/LS events and random events posted on the BalCal. Attend them often enough and it's the same people that generally show up. Which does present the perception of a lack of new faces, however it is merely a side effect of failing in to the same loop as the other regulars of those events.
This is very true! We tend to move around in certain social circles, seeing the same people. Often though, our circles do not overlap with others'! It may give the appearance of a smaller population when that is far from the truth. I'm always discovering new to me, well known to others RPers that I never encounter in game just due to moving in different circles. (If you're outside Ul'dah, I'll never see you, for example xD)
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - Zhavi - 12-05-2017
I would say if any FC feels their membership is suffering -- really try to reach out to players of exceptional characters oocly. I mean yeah, it's not ideal, but at this point the people savvy enough to find your fc and go for it are likely already there, leaving only the people whose efforts have (for whatever reason) failed. Or, maybe they got caught up in a friend's fc or this or that and just got lost along the way somewhere.
If this thread has shown me anything, it's that there's a lot of folks who feel like the barrier to entry is high enough to be discouraging. From the end of an established fc, it likely doesn't feel that way at all, but you know, not everyone is the same, and we've seen time and time again that shyer rpers have a wicked hard time making that initial approach.
Sometimes people just need some one on one outreach. But, of course, no one is obligated to do that outreach. If, however, y'all are inclined, I would encourage it.
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - ExAtomos - 12-05-2017
(12-05-2017, 12:40 PM)Zhavi Wrote: I would say if any FC feels their membership is suffering -- really try to reach out to players of exceptional characters oocly. Â I mean yeah, it's not ideal, but at this point the people savvy enough to find your fc and go for it are likely already there, leaving only the people whose efforts have (for whatever reason) failed. Â Or, maybe they got caught up in a friend's fc or this or that and just got lost along the way somewhere.
If this thread has shown me anything, it's that there's a lot of folks who feel like the barrier to entry is high enough to be discouraging. Â From the end of an established fc, it likely doesn't feel that way at all, but you know, not everyone is the same, and we've seen time and time again that shyer rpers have a wicked hard time making that initial approach.
Sometimes people just need some one on one outreach. Â But, of course, no one is obligated to do that outreach. Â If, however, y'all are inclined, I would encourage it.
This is actually why I maintain the FC/LS Themes thread. For example, there are a lot of hunt focused groups out there... but we may not realize the others exist. Same with Imperials or other focus groups. I love cross-FC/LS RP (share the burden lol) and actively encourage it when I can. But it does seem that many folks shy away from outreach.
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - Teadrinker - 12-05-2017
(12-05-2017, 12:40 PM)Zhavi Wrote: If this thread has shown me anything, it's that there's a lot of folks who feel like the barrier to entry is high enough to be discouraging. Â From the end of an established fc, it likely doesn't feel that way at all, but you know, not everyone is the same, and we've seen time and time again that shyer rpers have a wicked hard time making that initial approach.
This kinda boggles me. I've really yet to see an FC publicly open to recruitment with some ridiculous standards for entry. Not saying it's not out there! I just haven't seen it in a good long while. Yeah, maybe there's an app. And your character has to meet people ICly. But if that's all a little much then I'd question whether the person has found the right hobby.
(12-01-2017, 12:31 PM)AkhutaiAngura Wrote:(12-01-2017, 12:24 PM)Zhavi Wrote: Why don't more people who aren't already entrenched in a group start stuff together? Â Lack of desire to spearhead something? Â Or more a desire to become part of building something that's already started? Â Less risk?
It takes a certain personality to keep things together, and I think by and large those of us who haven't found our groups to play with - Whether it be an FC or just a group of friends - Aren't of that 'leader' type personality. The one who sort of.. encourages the group down a given plot line or somesuch. The ingame DM as it were.
So, in joining with an FC, we're getting that 'leadership' personality to follow.
The RP sphere would be a better place if people were just better at realizing this and understanding it. A lot of people join FCs because they don't want to run anything and then want to get upset at the fact they aren't in charge of decision making..? Just acknowledging that it's your responsibility to find a theme and place for your character that makes sense for them and a place that that feels right OOCly and doing it would go a long way. FC's are hard enough to run as it is. Coddling people can quickly become unsustainable.
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - ArmachiA - 12-06-2017
(12-04-2017, 10:47 PM)Parth Makeo Wrote: Part of the problem too is the mentality of "I have to be there from the start to be engaged/immersed" mentality of storyline RP events...even though i did self contain the events enough to be one offs without much worry and made them more call to arms.This is a huge issue for me, as well. I'm basically a DM in this game, since I've been a DM in tabletop games since I was 16 it just feels more comfortable for me to run things. I like when people join (Even outside of FC but I do tend to keep it contained to FC for obvious reasons) but I get "I had to be there for the beginning so I don't wanna" or "I'm not sure I can see it to the end so I don't wanna" a lot. It's not something I've really been able to solve, but I do what you do, self contained events with an over arching narrative so if they just go to one or two they won't be lost in anyway and if they feel like joining the big picture they can. I don't know, maybe people are scared? It's hard for me to get into the player mindset.
(12-05-2017, 12:40 PM)Zhavi Wrote: I would say if any FC feels their membership is suffering -- really try to reach out to players of exceptional characters oocly. I mean yeah, it's not ideal, but at this point the people savvy enough to find your fc and go for it are likely already there, leaving only the people whose efforts have (for whatever reason) failed. Or, maybe they got caught up in a friend's fc or this or that and just got lost along the way somewhere.I took down our recruitment while we readjust what we actually want to do, but for those recruiting you have to be -really- careful with that because it could look like your guild poaching, and the last thing you want is to look bad in another FCs eyes during this time.
(12-05-2017, 03:14 PM)Teadrinker Wrote: It takes a certain personality to keep things together, and I think by and large those of us who haven't found our groups to play with - Whether it be an FC or just a group of friends - Aren't of that 'leader' type personality. The one who sort of.. encourages the group down a given plot line or somesuch. The ingame DM as it were.
So, in joining with an FC, we're getting that 'leadership' personality to follow.
DMing is really really hard. The hardest thing is you have to learn to take criticism, even if it's not constructive. Someone in your story, or outside of it, isn't going to like what you do. Someone is going to call you out for something you think is fine. Here's a small list of things I've dealt with, sometimes at the same time -
~ This storyline is too light
~ This storyline is too dark
~ Your character is too involved
~ your character isn't involved enough
~ your villians are OP/This puzzle is too hard/<Thing is too hard to overcome>
~ <Thing is too easy to overcome and now I'm bored>
~ This storyline is too big
~ This storyline is too small
~ This storyline is bad for <reasons>
There aren't many people who will address it, decide if it's worth changing, then let it go. Negative attention can keep many many people from attempting anything like that, which is a shame because your going to get Negative attention -anytime- you stick your neck out. To people who tend to internalize things like that, it can be very damaging. I wish I could tell people to stop being so negative or for DMs to grow a backbone, but both of those things aren't realistic.
On top of putting a ton of work into events and the story?
It's a tough job. I know why people don't do it.
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - Mermaid - 12-06-2017
(12-05-2017, 03:14 PM)Teadrinker Wrote:(12-05-2017, 12:40 PM)Zhavi Wrote: If this thread has shown me anything, it's that there's a lot of folks who feel like the barrier to entry is high enough to be discouraging. Â From the end of an established fc, it likely doesn't feel that way at all, but you know, not everyone is the same, and we've seen time and time again that shyer rpers have a wicked hard time making that initial approach.
This kinda boggles me. I've really yet to see an FC publicly open to recruitment with some ridiculous standards for entry. Not saying it's not out there! I just haven't seen it in a good long while. Yeah, maybe there's an app. And your character has to meet people ICly. But if that's all a little much then I'd question whether the person has found the right hobby.
I feel like the problem has less to do with ridiculous recruitment standards and more to do with peoples' perceptions. An FC can say it's open and accepting of everyone but from the outside looking in it still looks like a clique to a lot of people. There's plotlines and characters and all kinds of stuff can be really overwhelming to just jump into. Not to mention, who out there hasn't ever tried to join a group only to feel like the outsider? It's not really either side's fault and there's only so much that can be done about it.
It's also like Zhavi said, the initial approach is the hardest for shyer people. I have to fight that battle constantly and I often lose. Plenty of people, myself included, are perfectly fine after enough of that ice is broken. There will always be a few lost causes though and really I can't blame anyone for not wanting to coddle the shyer RPers. It can feel like such a sisyphean task to drag us out of our shells.
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - Zhavi - 12-06-2017
(12-06-2017, 01:01 AM)ArmachiA Wrote:(12-05-2017, 12:40 PM)Zhavi Wrote: I would say if any FC feels their membership is suffering -- really try to reach out to players of exceptional characters oocly. I mean yeah, it's not ideal, but at this point the people savvy enough to find your fc and go for it are likely already there, leaving only the people whose efforts have (for whatever reason) failed. Or, maybe they got caught up in a friend's fc or this or that and just got lost along the way somewhere.I took down our recruitment while we readjust what we actually want to do, but for those recruiting you have to be -really- careful with that because it could look like your guild poaching, and the last thing you want is to look bad in another FCs eyes during this time.
Ah, forgive me, my intention in writing that was to address rpers who are in a friend's fc oocly, or who are in more of a pve fc that doesn't cater to rpers or have a story. Over time, I've seen a few people who had their characters plopped into a FC for this or that benefit, and still be looking for another FC with the blessing of current FC.
Sometimes you do things for your friends but not intend to stay or whatever, you know? In any case, if someone is looking for a RP FC but has a tag on, it might have inadvertently made it harder for them because people already in FCs would assume that's where they want to be. The point I intended to make was simply that you can approach someone with sensitivity to the fact that they might be in a FC (in a lot of ooc character posts, it doesn't say whether they are or not), and simply word it as a rp request or a 'not sure if you're already in a FC' sort of deal.
edit -
(12-05-2017, 03:14 PM)Teadrinker Wrote:(12-05-2017, 12:40 PM)Zhavi Wrote: If this thread has shown me anything, it's that there's a lot of folks who feel like the barrier to entry is high enough to be discouraging. From the end of an established fc, it likely doesn't feel that way at all, but you know, not everyone is the same, and we've seen time and time again that shyer rpers have a wicked hard time making that initial approach.
This kinda boggles me. I've really yet to see an FC publicly open to recruitment with some ridiculous standards for entry. Not saying it's not out there! I just haven't seen it in a good long while. Yeah, maybe there's an app. And your character has to meet people ICly. But if that's all a little much then I'd question whether the person has found the right hobby.
Whether or not any single person feels it's right, the years and years of posts on this very forum have proven that there are a lot of rpers who wish to write but have a hard time overcoming the initial round of communication. Whether they are shy, or anxious, or simply going about things in ways that do not work: they exist, they want to rp, and they can't find their people.
RP and online interaction can be a way to overcome some of those social difficulties, but it also stands that sometimes giving people an outstretched hand can avail you a broader spectrum of people for rp. Do you have to reach out to such people? Of course not. But it remains that they are there, and they tend to be the ones currently transferring to Mateus because for whatever reason they haven't been able to find their jam here.
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - ExAtomos - 12-06-2017
(12-06-2017, 12:36 PM)Zhavi Wrote: edit -
(12-05-2017, 03:14 PM)Teadrinker Wrote:(12-05-2017, 12:40 PM)Zhavi Wrote: If this thread has shown me anything, it's that there's a lot of folks who feel like the barrier to entry is high enough to be discouraging. Â From the end of an established fc, it likely doesn't feel that way at all, but you know, not everyone is the same, and we've seen time and time again that shyer rpers have a wicked hard time making that initial approach.
This kinda boggles me. I've really yet to see an FC publicly open to recruitment with some ridiculous standards for entry. Not saying it's not out there! I just haven't seen it in a good long while. Yeah, maybe there's an app. And your character has to meet people ICly. But if that's all a little much then I'd question whether the person has found the right hobby.
Whether or not any single person feels it's right, the years and years of posts on this very forum have proven that there are a lot of rpers who wish to write but have a hard time overcoming the initial round of communication. Â Whether they are shy, or anxious, or simply going about things in ways that do not work: they exist, they want to rp, and they can't find their people.
RP and online interaction can be a way to overcome some of those social difficulties, but it also stands that sometimes giving people an outstretched hand can avail you a broader spectrum of people for rp. Â Do you have to reach out to such people? Â Of course not. Â But it remains that they are there, and they tend to be the ones currently transferring to Mateus because for whatever reason they haven't been able to find their jam here.
I think part of the issue is the insinuation here that the FC lead(s) has to do all the work of outreach, RP interaction, and somehow convincing the individual that their group is a good place. It does need to be a balance, a meeting in the middle, where the FC leader does their part and the player reaches out to them with suggestions, ideas, and concepts that they are RPing.
As FC lead, I am only one person and can only do so much for the other players. If they won't communicate back, no matter how I try to include them, not much I can do at that point.
I have had my share of bad apples in the group and wariness from these experiences is to be expected. Therefore, yeah... I get a feel for the player first before allowing them to join the FC. What group doesn't? And obviously, this happens more with established groups like we see on Balmung than new groups with leaders that are new to leading that just want to increase membership and sort things out later. (An extreme example of this is when I was on Atomos. One of my officers invited EVERYONE on the server that had EN highlighted. This meant we got a lot of bots. I had to take away their invite power cause they wouldn't stop inviting randomly. And no, they weren't a bot themselves, just VERY VERY FRIENDLY AND HAPPY AND EVERYONE IS GREAT. xD)
RE: The State of Balmung's Lockdown - Zhavi - 12-06-2017
(12-06-2017, 01:03 PM)ExAtomos Wrote: I think part of the issue is the insinuation here that the FC lead(s) has to do all the work of outreach, RP interaction, and somehow convincing the individual that their group is a good place. It does need to be a balance, a meeting in the middle, where the FC leader does their part and the player reaches out to them with suggestions, ideas, and concepts that they are RPing.
As FC lead, I am only one person and can only do so much for the other players. If they won't communicate back, no matter how I try to include them, not much I can do at that point.
I have had my share of bad apples in the group and wariness from these experiences is to be expected. Therefore, yeah... I get a feel for the player first before allowing them to join the FC. What group doesn't? And obviously, this happens more with established groups like we see on Balmung than new groups with leaders that are new to leading that just want to increase membership and sort things out later. (An extreme example of this is when I was on Atomos. One of my officers invited EVERYONE on the server that had EN highlighted. This meant we got a lot of bots. I had to take away their invite power cause they wouldn't stop inviting randomly.)
Hence the 'do you have to reach out to these people? of course not.' I've been in the position of recruitment before, in a highly competitive buyer's market. I know the pain, and I know how exhausting it can become. My point wasn't that it's necessary to FC operation, it was that if any FC feels like their recruitment pool is exhausted, sending messages to people through ooc means after viewing their wiki or bio or whatever, is an option. An aggressive and time consuming option, yes, but an option nonetheless. I wouldn't have suggested it if I hadn't met fcless or unhappy/undersaturated rpers that way time and time and time again.
It was not intended as criticism or an implication that FC leads/officers aren't already working hard (not that you took it as such, I'm just not sure if maybe it was worded in such a way as to be taken that way).