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Challenging a Nunh - Printable Version

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Challenging a Nunh - J'rhazi Tia - 09-21-2017

Is there some sort of formal challenge that must be issued before a Tia can fight a Nunh? Or does the breeding male always just have to watch his back for potential challengers?
Also, how does magic contribute to the challenge, if at all? The lore I have seen thus far seems to say that the male that is physically strongest has the title of Nunh, but what if some scrawny black mage kicks the crap out of the Nunh using his abilities? Is that taken into account at all? 

Writing backstory, thanks in advance for your help!


RE: Challenging a Nunh - Valence - 09-21-2017

All evidence I have seen seems to point in the direction that it's formal combat. It's not about slicing the throat of the nunh during the night. 

The Mole tribe quests in SB portray a young Tia constantly challenging the nunh, and he does it formally every time, which ends up in combat.  The Drake tribe (U) quests are less direct about it, but the two Tia competing for nunh constantly try to improve their martial prowess and leadership skills in order to challenge the nunh. It's unclear how exactly this has to be handled here though.

Encyclopedia Eorzea Wrote:Young males are born and raised as "tia", and must either assume the position of nunh by challenging and defeating an existing nunh in singe combat, or leave the community and find a harem of his own.

U'khuba Tia Wrote:The law is clear─to become the nunh of the U tribe, one must defeat the current nunh. In my case, this means U'odh nunh.

U'khuba Tia Wrote:However, in order to win the right to challenge U'odh, I must first triumph over U'tykha. He stands in my way, and I in his. In this manner the nunh is protected from constant challenge.

Mole Tribe Sidequests Wrote:An unruly young Seeker of the Sun has been challenging M'rahz nunh to combat without cease, each attempt more futile than the last. While most would find these duels to be an annoyance, M'rahz nunh sees this persistence as admirable. That is why he asks you to train this would-be warrior. He says your new student can be found idling about Virdjala.

Mole Tribe Sidequests Wrote:Bearing witness to your battle against the gazelle has left M'zhet duly inspired. So much so, he is confident he can defeat M'rahz nunh at this very moment. But first, he would ponder his plan of attack.

Recounting the shame of his past has reaffirmed M'zhet Tia's resolve to defeat M'rahz nunh and become leader of the M tribe. He pleads with you to continue his training that he might challenge the M tribe leader once more.

M'zhet Tia is determined to defeat M'rahz nunh. Believing he has found the means to harden himself for battle, he bids you follow him to where he has been keeping to a safe location for training.

M'zhet Tia is battered and bruised, but not beaten. Despite his appearance, he claims he is stronger than ever. Perhaps even strong enough to defeat M'rahz nunh. After a short rest, that is.

Mole Tribe Sidequests Wrote:M'rahz nunh agrees to duel. However, he insists on moving the battle to a ravine southeast of the Peering Stones. M'zhet consents and takes his leave of the camp. You follow him to the ravine and wait for the fight to begin.

M'razh Nunh Wrote:M'zhet. Have you come to challenge me once more for the title of nunh?

M'zet Tia Wrote:The next time we meet, you'll addressing me as M'zhet nunh. At least I hope so. I also expect a rematch for that first thrashing you gave me.

As far as I recall the lore doesn't point at the strongest, but the most physically fit or worthy. It's not necessarily impossible for someone weak physically and strong in magic to fit the bill, perhaps? I have never seen anything saying it must specifically be physical, added to the fact that the story and quests rarely seem to make any difference in Eorzea between physical fighters and mages (think Sadu vs Magnai among others).

The compete for breeding rights, and strong magical affinity, I believe, is also a proof of your "superior" genes.

U'odh Nunh Wrote:The nunh I once fought also believed that his strrrength would save him. He was wrong, and now I am nunh.

Which doesn't exactly say anything about magic, but sure says something about strenght here.


RE: Challenging a Nunh - J'rhazi Tia - 09-21-2017

That's a lot of info!!!

Thank you sooo much, this helps me quite a bit!


RE: Challenging a Nunh - Aegir - 09-21-2017

For those looking on advice for the opposite:

[Image: tumblr_os68fliD7C1vfi4y5o1_1280.jpg]
[Image: tumblr_os68fliD7C1vfi4y5o2_1280.jpg]
[Image: tumblr_os68fliD7C1vfi4y5o3_1280.jpg]


RE: Challenging a Nunh - Sounsyy - 09-21-2017

(09-21-2017, 10:51 AM)Jrhazi Tia Wrote: Is there some sort of formal challenge that must be issued before a Tia can fight a Nunh? Or does the breeding male always just have to watch his back for potential challengers?

This may ultimately vary from tribe to tribe, or even sect to sect. For instance, in the Gyr Abanian Marmot tribe, M'rahz Nunh says the Nunh is formally invited to a duel by the challenging Tia:

M'rahz Nunh Wrote:In recent days, a young Seeker of the Sun has seen fit to issue me several challenges to combat. I can only assume he means to assume the role of nunh and leader of our people. Tradition dictates the strongest among us must take the position, so I gladly face any who believe they are fit to lead. The problem, however, is this challenger is decidedly weak. Yet no matter how many times I put him down, he refuses to concede.

His invitations to duel were a mild annoyance at first, but I've come to find his single-minded determination to be intriguing. In fact, I was hoping you would consider training him. I realize how absurd it sounds to help my rival-to-be, but I am curious of his potential. There was a time when I was the weakest of the males in the M tribe. It wasn't easy, but through rigorous training, I eventually grew to become the man you see before you. I see much of myself in that young Miqo'te. Our tribe could stand to have more like him.

But in the Drake tribe in the Sagolii Desert, a Tia must first overcome a rival Tia in combat before he is even allowed to face the Nunh of the tribe:

U'khuba Tia Wrote:The law is clear─to become the nunh of the U tribe, one must defeat the current nunh. In my case, this means U'odh Nunh. However, in order to win the right to challenge U'odh, I must first triumph over U'tykha. He stands in my way, and I in his. In this manner the nunh is protected from constant challenge. But to defeat U'tykha, my arms must be impeccable; a fool he may be, but weak he is not. I shall make new arrowheads, and for that I need barbs from a yarzon.


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(09-21-2017, 10:51 AM)Jrhazi Tia Wrote: Also, how does magic contribute to the challenge, if at all? The lore I have seen thus far seems to say that the male that is physically strongest has the title of Nunh, but what if some scrawny black mage kicks the crap out of the Nunh using his abilities? Is that taken into account at all?

We've not seen this happen yet, so it's hard to say. Though in all fairness, what we've seen of the tribal lifestyle and their nunhs is incredibly limited in scope. Of the two examples we've seen, both M and U tribes demand displays of physical strength. Remember that first and foremost, a Nunh is a breeding male. He may also be a tribe leader (willing or not), but his primary duty is carry on the tribe's legacy and pass on the "strongest" genes. This is likely why peak physical prowess is preferred method of challenge in the tribes we've seen.

That said, there could be a tribe or sect of a tribe out there who value cunning, intellect, or aetherial prowess over physical strength and seek to carry on these traits through breeding. We've not seen it yet, but it's not impossible. In these tribes or sects, a Nunh with a greater aetherial fortitude, or anima, may be more desirable.


In any case, I'll drop some Seeker lore down below:
Show Content
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Hope this helps! ^^
edit: oop, valence beat me to it. (though, mole tribe is O', the M' tribe in Gyr Abania is marmot)


RE: Challenging a Nunh - X'shah Zinbhe - 09-24-2017

Sounsyy is excellent at touching on the official lore aspect. I will leave that to them! Here's my insight after role-playing for years and what I have seen and noticed.

I've seen lots of great ideas brought forth by players who think up their own process for their little group of tribals. There's Dodo I know of that have a sort of "Nunh Olympics" where the greatest athlete is given the responsibility of coupling with women who wish it until the next event. I thought that was pretty neat!

In the case of the sept that my character leads anyone who wishes to challenge for the position will require the approval of the women, without question. They aren't going to put up with some stranger walking in and simply winning the spot by brute force, although exceptional strength is important.

They will laugh at any man who attempts to challenge who cannot demonstrate the following:
  • Resources to help raise the children.
  • Attentiveness to the needs of the women.
  • Excellent time and resource management skills.

In short, someone who would prove to be a good father figure (even if the woman decides he will have a distant relationship with the child) and will not stretch themselves too thin. Someone who isn't selfish and puts the needs of the group over his own and willing to train someone to act as a second if and when the group becomes too large for him to handle on his own. Someone who the women already know and find reliable.

Keep in mind this is a sept that highly values martial excellence. They aren't just savage warriors after all. Hope that makes sense and offered some form of insight.