Hingan and Doman Language - Printable Version +- Hydaelyn Role-Players (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18) +-- Forum: Community (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=8) +--- Forum: Lore Discussion (https://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/mybb18/forumdisplay.php?fid=49) +--- Thread: Hingan and Doman Language (/showthread.php?tid=20575) |
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Kismet - 09-02-2017 Here's the video, if anyone wants to hear it for themselves. He speaks on Doman/Hingan at 47:50. [youtube]BODQKPa6WQA[/youtube]
All in all? I personally took this to mean "do as you wish". (Edit: The no on the slide is probably to the first question, and yes to the second question. But he was still just "whatever" about it. Don't take it so seriously either way, essentially.) RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Teadrinker - 09-02-2017 The laxidasical attitude with which this was answered has me both laughing and also kind of shocked. And then when I think about it more and about what he said I find myself coming to the same reaction and conclusion. "Sure. Or not. You decide." I'm glad they acknowledged the pitfalls of having Japanese be the same as Hingan since that essentially makes it Eorzean canonically. However moving along in the response he ALSO says "Hingan is almost indiscernible from Eorzean in the Japanese version." At this point I have no idea if it's a different language or not cause it's starting to come off like you have 2 versions of canon here. It's like when Brock held up the onigiri and called them jelly donuts in the English version of Pokemon. The great Hingan debate aka Brock's Donuts. In the end I took as his response as essentially this: "Do what you want I don't care." RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Zhu - 09-02-2017 I personally stick to the JP version when it comes to canon discrepancies between localizations because it's how the original writers intended it to be. Can't get more lore accurate than that. /Moderator snipped. A portion of this post contains wording which baits retaliatory or defensive responses. -Moderator Sorcini RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Wemrys - 09-02-2017 It was the wording of the question honestly that I think made it difficult to answer in any way other than "lol i duno". Asking specifically if Doman/Hingan is flat out Japanese allows that "well in Japan...no" loophole. The way I'm seeing it is that it's flat out a different language, but it's not straight Japanese just like how the old Elezen tongue isn't straight up French. For further reference look to earlier in the panel and he talks about how the xaela tribes all have their own tongues and but they also have another language in common so that they can properly communicate. They make it clear that a lot of the words in said language are derived directly from Mongolian but there are other words just just created to make the language its own distinct and separate thing. Essentially they don't seem to want to directly grab any one language and use it verbatim as a the same language with a different name. While it is very much "do as you like" it seems to come across that there are definitely outright language barriers and the game is presented as is for the sake of not having to go and have everyone struggle to understand eachother constantly. EDIT: Essentially what I'm saying is...if you want to RP a different language, just use brackets. There are clearly lore supported words/terms/phrases and you can use those normally, but there's really no need to have your character flat out speak Japanese and say it's Hingan...just use brackets and say it's Hingan. RE: Hingan and Doman Language - L'ohba Tia - 09-02-2017 The bit about Hingan being indiscernible from Eorzean is only in reference to the Japanese script and whether or not players typing in Japanese are speaking Hingan. Koji confirmed here, alongside Hancock's dialogue, that Hingan is a separate language from Hyuran Common. RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Teadrinker - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 09:21 PM)L Wrote: The bit about Hingan being indiscernible from Eorzean is only in reference to the Japanese script and whether or not players typing in Japanese are speaking Hingan. Koji confirmed here, alongside Hancock's dialogue, that Hingan is a separate language from Hyuran Common. So it's a different language that is almost indiscernible from the Eorzean tongue in the Japanese version? I didn't see where it specified written text only but then again does it matter? If it's written one way then it's spoken that way too, right? This is why I'm just washing my hands of it at this point. I just plan to RP this out in the way that my partners and I are comfortable. RE: Hingan and Doman Language - LiadansWhisper - 09-02-2017 (09-02-2017, 09:31 PM)Teadrinker Wrote:(09-02-2017, 09:21 PM)L Wrote: The bit about Hingan being indiscernible from Eorzean is only in reference to the Japanese script and whether or not players typing in Japanese are speaking Hingan. Koji confirmed here, alongside Hancock's dialogue, that Hingan is a separate language from Hyuran Common. Ah, no. I believe what they meant is that they drew so strongly from actual Japanese to form the language that, if your language is actual Japanese, you would be hard-pressed as the player to tell the difference. For anyone who is playing in a different language, the differences are obvious to the player. But it's still a separate language from the common tongue spoken in-character by NPCs and whatnot. RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Sounsyy - 09-02-2017 Language Lore Discussed at PAX West Lore Panel PAX West Lore Panel Wrote:Ruby Tide vs Ruby Sea PAX West Lore Panel Wrote: PAX West Lore Panel Wrote:When looking at the six maps of the Othardian areas, we have kinda English translations on some of those maps as well. Why? If you're in Hingashi shouldn't everything be in the Romaji Hingan. You have things like the Bokaisen Hot Springs. Well why is hot springs on there? This goes back to what I explained with the Ruby Tide when those first explorers came in, they didn't know much of the language. So they're going to hear the name of the place from the people and transcribe that down so when the guy says what is this called you get "Bokaisen." He's going to write that down, but if they write that down someone who doesn't understand Hingan is not going to understand what Bokaisen is, so they also wrote that this is a hot spring. For a person who does speak Hingan, they'll think Bokaisen - the "sen" is the hot spring part, so by saying Bokaisen Hot Springs you're saying Bokai hot springs hot springs. Or Shisui of the Violet Tides, Violet Tides of the Violet Tides. PAX West Lore Panel Wrote:Q: Does "Doman" or "Hingan" exist as completely separate languages? Would speaking Japanese in-game count as speaking "Hingan"? ______________________________ (09-02-2017, 08:55 PM)Zhu Wrote: I personally stick to the JP version when it comes to canon discrepancies between localizations because it's how the original writers intended it to be. Can't get more lore accurate than that. Except the JP aren't always the original writers. Koji talks quite a bit about this in this interview as well as previous ones that Koji and Banri Oda are both "world lore creators" though Oda-san was recently promoted to both world lore creator and main scenario writer. Oda focused mostly on the foundations of what's needed for the story and leaves Koji to create a lot of the side stuff. (And make puns, which is okay, because their localization lead John Crow allows each language to have more or less free reign on their dialogue.) PAX West Lore Panel Wrote:It's not in the Japanese. With the balloon text that we have here... I've explained this before, but the dev team has pretty much allowed all language teams to have fun with this. As long as there's no game hints in the text and they're not more than four lines, any language can do whatever they want to flesh out the game. RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Caspar - 09-02-2017 This is more indistinct of an answer than I expected, but it seems to me that the only language in which no reference to a foreign tongue in Othard is upheld is the Japanese one. It's like Oda was the only member of the lore team across regions who didn't consider it lol. It's not the primary source either. I think the most useful tool for understanding the difference between the languages is the fact that written text in Othard is syllabic and written text in Eorzea is alphabet based. I have a hard time believing this could occur based on the same spoken language. It seems like the question seems more of an answer to the issue of translation convention, where no, the in game language isn't specifically one from the real world, but rather one that is analogous within setting, following familiar rules, carrying similar cultural nuance, but not being exactly the same. RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Valence - 09-03-2017 (09-02-2017, 09:31 PM)Teadrinker Wrote:(09-02-2017, 09:21 PM)L Wrote: The bit about Hingan being indiscernible from Eorzean is only in reference to the Japanese script and whether or not players typing in Japanese are speaking Hingan. Koji confirmed here, alongside Hancock's dialogue, that Hingan is a separate language from Hyuran Common. I don't even count the number of movies, films, or anything else depicting other nations or situations where other languages are involved, and that are just straight up english (or whatever the language the translated version is for) for the sake of convenience. I don't see why it would be different here. There is a huge difference between script language (for the audience) and lore language. RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Unnamed Mercenary - 09-07-2017 Alrighty! So based on the number of reports and some of the recent posts, it's pretty clear this thread has run its course and has become fractured into a couple off-topic discussions that should be handled in different threads, if they'd like to continue. 1. If you're here to discuss the separation of Eorzean and Doman/Hingan as shown through the lore, please open a new thread in the Lore Discussion forum. It may be handy to denote whether you're talking about Eorzean in terms of the game client language or the in-game setting language. Same goes for any and all other languages. 2. If you're here to discuss whether people should be using foreign languages, [[in mystical foreign language brackets that people can read]] or by using the actual language/google translated words in sentences, etc, please open a thread in RP Discussion. RE: Hingan and Doman Language - allgivenover - 09-07-2017 Hingan and Eorzean are not the same language A few months ago Hingan === Eorzean was a thin theory at best, but now the evidence is so overwhelming that continuing to push the idea makes me wonder if there isn’t a racist or hate-filled motivation fueled by a dislike for anime or Japanese culture. To be clear, if you don’t like Hingan in your RP that’s just like your opinion man, but to deny its existence in the lore given what we know and what the devs have said and good logical deduction skills would make me question your motivation as to why you’re doing it at this point. Here is a list of why the idea doesn’t work particularly in the context of the western localization - but really it doesn’t work in any localization.
Here’s a breakdown of all the models that have been passed around for months regarding this issue.
To be clear… if you don’t like Hingan in your role play as a separate language, fine, but to continue to push the idea that it doesn’t exist in lore is simply wrong and bad logic. It requires cherry picking, bad conclusions, or petty hatred to uphold. We don't see the same posts here or in the wild regarding loan words or language usage of say... Mongolian "Xaelic"... because that and other languages are not tied to Japanese in some way. This is also why we don't see posts chastising other languages as "inappropriate" to use in roleplay, only Hingan as a Japanese analog (which it is). *This post has been moderated so that it no longer violated the board rules. |