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+--- Thread: Hingan and Doman Language (/showthread.php?tid=20575)
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Caspar - 07-20-2017
I wish they could get their story straight in a lot of ways, and the expansion STILL hasn't given me the infamous tyrant's name, but I am uncomfortable weighing the JP version of the dialogue over that of the others, given that there is a sense of concurrent script writing going on in FFXIV. Just as I'm not fine with English being the only translation I consider valid, I'm not okay with the JP one being weighed as the original if its role as primary source is tenuous. Of course they're not going to mention a foreign language if it's in their home tongue. So I really don't think that one out of many translations precludes the existence of multiple languages if it is clearly stated in other translations otherwise. At best it is just self-contradicting lore that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and not a solid conclusion in favor of Doman being simply a dialect of the common language.
I'm in favor of things that give people more to RP with and against things that subtract from others RP. I think it's safer to allow for the existence of foreign languages, and racial tongues, as suggested in other translations, than to deny them, as the latter doesn't add anything to the setting, nor is it strictly more accurate given the other translations contradict the JP one.
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Kieron Lohengrin - 07-20-2017
Gosetsu uses wagahai and de gozaru a whole bunch. Is that a Hingan/Doman thing or a Gosetsu thing?
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Unnamed Mercenary - 07-20-2017
(07-20-2017, 03:06 AM)Kieron Lohengrin Wrote: Gosetsu uses wagahai and de gozaru a whole bunch. Is that a Hingan/Doman thing or a Gosetsu thing?
I'm assuming that's in the Japanese client/audio? Those are both archaic forms not typically found in modern Japanese, which would fit the Doman/Hingan style of speech.
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Valence - 07-20-2017
Personally this all comforts me into my middle line position where I believe there is a strong common tongue, possibly hyuran, as hinted in the lorebook, but that doesn't mean all those specific languages are extinct, or not spoken anymore besides. Especially Hingan.
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Gegenji - 07-20-2017
(07-20-2017, 03:13 PM)Valence Wrote: Personally this all comforts me into my middle line position where I believe there is a strong common tongue, possibly hyuran, as hinted in the lorebook, but that doesn't mean all those specific languages are extinct, or not spoken anymore besides. Especially Hingan.
It mostly just debunks the idea of someone from Doma not being able to speak to Eorzeans. Maybe they use a slang term or word that the other might know, but basic conversation should still be able to take place.
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Yian Kutku - 07-21-2017
(07-20-2017, 12:03 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote:(07-20-2017, 03:06 AM)Kieron Lohengrin Wrote: Gosetsu uses wagahai and de gozaru a whole bunch. Is that a Hingan/Doman thing or a Gosetsu thing?
I'm assuming that's in the Japanese client/audio? Those are both archaic forms not typically found in modern Japanese, which would fit the Doman/Hingan style of speech.
I have the vague impression that "de gozaru" was used by other Hingans, but I can't be totally sure. It's archaic and slightly less formal than the super-polite "de gozaimasu", but more formal than the usual "desu". It's stereotypical of samurai and ronin, which certainly fits Gosetsu.
"Wagahai" is pretty much just Gosetsu that I know of. It's supposed to sound self-important, by someone who thinks highly of themselves, whether justified or not. Younger/modern people might use "ore-sama" as an equivalent.
On a completely different note, Soroban uses "oira", which is supposed to sound, well, country hick.
So basically I think these particular phrasings in Japanese are definitely intended to evoke certain imagery, based on pop cultural history. We hear Gosetsu use "de gozaru", and we know that he's a samurai/ronin. We hear him use "wagahai", and we can get an idea of the type of proud personality he has. These would not have been as effective without the well-known popular interpretations of samurai in all sorts of media.
It's much like how most Limsans talk like pirates to varying degrees, even though the "pirate accent" was basically popularized in the 20th century by Robert Newton. Or, for slightly more historical accuracy, Jacke talking almost entirely in thieves' cant.
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Unnamed Mercenary - 07-23-2017
Some of the JP players have been working on figuring out what some of the written text in Kugane is.
![[Image: DFVwjXvUwAEB8Uz.jpg]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFVwjXvUwAEB8Uz.jpg)
![[Image: DFV0hG4UAAELv22.jpg]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFV0hG4UAAELv22.jpg)
![[Image: DFV0h_ZVoAAh9UU.jpg]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFV0h_ZVoAAh9UU.jpg)
![[Image: DFV0jB6UQAAZPT5.jpg]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFV0jB6UQAAZPT5.jpg)
![[Image: DFV0j3GU0AAzTtc.jpg]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFV0j3GU0AAzTtc.jpg)
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Yian Kutku - 07-23-2017
(07-23-2017, 12:59 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Some of the JP players have been working on figuring out what some of the written text in Kugane is.
That's pretty impressive. I can't even tell how one could get from the Hingan script to the Japanese kana.
Incidentally, I'm scratching my head over this one:
My Japanese is not good enough to interpret this, apart from how it's a poem by one Hirose. Anyone have an idea?
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Unnamed Mercenary - 07-23-2017
(07-23-2017, 02:53 PM)Yian Kutku Wrote:(07-23-2017, 12:59 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Some of the JP players have been working on figuring out what some of the written text in Kugane is.
That's pretty impressive. I can't even tell how one could get from the Hingan script to the Japanese kana.
My Japanese is not good enough to interpret this, apart from how it's a poem by one Hirose. Anyone have an idea?
The kana part is "easy" all things considered. It's like doing basic cryptography where the letters are switched around. It's more like a guessing game that you piece together by looking at what else it's around based on context. (Which is likely why we don't have a wo particle anywhere.)
My japanese is useless for poetry. I can barely order on a menu and ask for directions.
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Nero - 07-23-2017
The regular Eorzean alphabet is a pretty simple replacement sort of deal too. I'd be quite interested if they fully expanded on whatever the equivalent for Hingan/Doman and kana is.
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Kieron Lohengrin - 07-24-2017
ä¹‡ä¹‚ã„’å°ºå‚ ã„’å„丨匚匚
(yes, i am 12)
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Hinoto-no-Ryuji - 08-02-2017
Seems like there's an updated (and much more complete) version kicking about:
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Andromeda - 08-10-2017
There aren't many more contentious issues in lore interpretation and the lack of any real consistency form SE is horrible. By even saying that it's dubiously canon the Tumblr community lights the flames of war. Acting as though there is not a separate language is a good way to be ostracized regardless of canon. This is not an issue you want to wade into, in my opinion. The RP community has by and large decided that whatever canon shakes out being, Doman will be treated as the language of Othard and so that's where I recommend going.
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Valence - 08-10-2017
Hingan isn't Doman though.
RE: Hingan and Doman Language - Wemrys - 09-02-2017
Lore Panel just happened at PAX West and one of the questions to come up was whether Hingan and Doman were separate languages and if speaking Hingan would basically be like speaking straight up Japanese.
First of all Koji says that Oda confirmed Hingan is definitely another language* and a completely separate language from the common tongue. Furthermore, Koji confirmed Hingan and Doman are both dialects of the same language. He likened it to the difference between American and British English, very small differences but still the same language overall (essentially to make a more Japanese-centric reference, it'd be like the difference between a Kansai regional dialect and a Tokyo regional dialect).
*EDIT: Watched it back to be sure I had everything written properly. Koji and Oda both acknowledge that due to the Japanese version obviously already speaking Japanese in all regions it's hard to equate Hingan/Doman to being "Japanese" specifically, however for simplicity's sake it /would/ essentially be a different language altogether.
Image below is the slide from the lore panel.
![[Image: 0c43fb59502291d8b43c3696f1bf6c54.jpg]](https://i.gyazo.com/0c43fb59502291d8b43c3696f1bf6c54.jpg)