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Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Printable Version

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RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Verad - 07-23-2017

(07-23-2017, 04:00 AM)Lydia Lightfoot Wrote: The times when I've had a character become romantically involved with another and it ended up being a fulfilling and interesting element of their overall story, and it lasted long enough to be meaningful and feel even plausibly realistic, it happened organically. 

(07-23-2017, 09:02 AM)Kaiverta Wrote: But yes, the organic and realistic way of developing characters together, who learn about each other as you write them, is a really cool feeling. And it makes the relationship more solid. Smile

(07-23-2017, 09:08 AM)Kaiverta Wrote: Now I let things flow as they will, and it's great. Sometimes it ends and it's miserable, but at least it's organic and realistic, and doesn't feel forced.

(07-23-2017, 09:29 AM)AishaHeartfield Wrote:
For me personally, so much character development occurs through the complex interactions between my character and those written by other people. To skip all the experiences and interactions that may lead to an organic . . . 

I feel that a prior arranged romantic roleplay would rob that creative process of its organic value and in turn, result in a character that feels forced or unnatural. It would affect my immersion.

(07-23-2017, 12:18 PM)Lydia Lightfoot Wrote: Sometimes, that result means I don't ever really see that player's character around again, and other times I do, but the characters have a fairly organic evolution of their original "hmm, maybe?" thoughts into "mm, friends is good" instead. Or, sometimes other fun results happen, wherein one of the characters ends up harboring a crush or something like that, and as happens in real life, it just doesn't lead anywhere. 

In this thread, RP Whole Foods. The best RP is fair-trade, free of pesticides and human rights abuses, and non-GMO.

As for me, I like my RP processed, packed with unholy preservatives, and using monstrous randomizers that ruin everything and are built on the misery and labor of others. The goal of having natural and spontaneous creative outpourings that result from true and natural development between writers is meaningless to me, and I often find those results to be more predictable than if I had just pre-planned things or brought dice into the equation.

There are a number of good OOC reasons why players would choose to engage in pre-planned romances, but since the question is focused on why people would post forum ads looking for pre-arranged romance instead of, say, pre-establishing one with a player the writer already knows and trusts, let's stick with that. And since other people have pointed out the "red flag" issue, let's skip that.

Instead, frame these requests in the context of another type of thread we get with some frequency: "Why won't anybody RP with me when I walk up to them?" or its kissing cousin, "Why can't I get a storyline rolling beyond 'shallow' tavern RP?" For some people, this platonic ideal, this organic state of artisanal free-range cruelty-free romance hasn't happened, and for some it seems like it can't happen, because every time they try to do things "organically" they've failed or been ignored, and it's been that way for a long time. When people post these kinds of threads all they're really told is to keep hammering away at the problem. Some people accept this advice, and some decide to circumvent it and advertise what they're looking for. 

It seems unfair to disparage the choice when they may well have tried the alternative and not found it to be the immersive utopia it's cracked up to be, either because they couldn't get it at all, or because, as other people have already mentioned, it can get creepy in a hurry when it turns out their partner is looking to develop an organic OOC relationship as well, to the point of becoming outright abusive.

And then there are people who don't really see any aesthetic value in the sentiment that it feels "natural" and "unpredictable" or whatever when the roleplay develops naturally. Certainly, it's great when you stumble upon a writer you didn't know before with whom you have a good rapport, and do so largely by coincidence. But as somebody who doesn't value "organic" RP[sup]1[/sup], that feels less like an ideal form of the hobby and more like a lucky act of networking. I don't romanticize it, or let it inform how I approach my roleplay.

[sup]1[/sup]Those of you who know me reasonably well might ask "But Verad, one of the things you like doing is walking up to strangers and selling them garbage IC, how is that anything but organic roleplay?" The terrible secret: my character's sales-pitches are pretty much scripted at this point, and the responses of the players are pretty much predictable, following down one of about four different response tracks. It's as organic as Spam.

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Kismet - 07-23-2017

For me, the nature of the method matters less than the specifics of the RPer behind the other screen at the end of the day. No amount of pre-planning OR luck with development via randos over time can really make up for a person, character, and/or RP preferences I simply don't mesh well with.

More often than not, I may choose to see where things lead over setting up things in advance. (This is somewhat more due to laziness than cherry-picking for high quality.) But overall, if the other RPer and I have little to no rhythm, there's no point in forcing ourselves to dance.

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Nero - 07-23-2017

I mean, why does anyone pre-arrange any RP? Because they're looking for a certain kind of experience or scenario, and the statistical likelihood of that coming from un-arranged, spur-of-the-moment circumstances is incredibly unlikely.

At the risk of some false-equivalency fallacy, do we consider the relationships of people who met through online dating less "organic" compared to those who met as friends first and became intimate later?

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Tiergan - 07-23-2017

As someone who has tried both organic and pre-arranged romance RP, I arch my brow at the notion that either is somehow better or worse than the other when any romance RP - regardless of how it originated - boils down to one thing: the people involved.

If you mesh with someone and they have the same idea in mind of what is 'fun' romance RP and what isn't - and they're not a gross abusive creep (which can and has happened in both organic and pre-arranged RP) - the romance RP is probably going to be a blast for that person regardless of how it all rolled out.

Additionally - I personally would like it if folks would stop repeatedly attempting to organically grow free-range romance RP with my character. At least in these threads they are upfront and clear about what they are hunting for instead of injecting their desires into all the RP we do, hoping the organic romance will 'spontaneously' occur.

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Verad - 07-23-2017

It just occurred to me there's a significant overlap between the posters saying that pre-planned RP feels hollow and forced in this thread, and the posters saying they have a right to respond to public RP without feeling the need to send a tell asking if it's okay in the other thread about public RP etiquette.

How much of this is born from actual confusion over the thread topic itself instead of a general confusion that other people don't like immersive RP that much, and have reasons for doing so?

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Diskwrite - 07-23-2017

Ultimately I find it meaningless to audit other people's preferences. Even if it isn't what you enjoy, it's a big RP community. They will likely find someone who likes to do things the same way they do. As long as they're not hurting themselves or someone else, what does it matter what they choose to do or not?

But to address the question more directly: I agree with Verad in that this seems to be more about whether or not you prefer immersive RP.

If you like immersive RP, that's great! More power to you! There's plenty of other people who share that preference, so please go forth and enjoy with your fellow players.

If you're like me, however, you don't.

That's not to say that I don't enjoy organically derived interactions, relationships, or storylines. I certainly do! But I only have so much time, energy, and inclination to RP each week. More and more, I find myself preferring to stick to pre-planned interactions, people I already know, or plots and/or RP communities I'm already part of. Not because I want to exclude people, but because I literally don't have the energy to devote to both my established connections and the sort of immersive interactions these threads have discussed.

Immersive RP can take a lot of time, energy, and work to move beyond surface interactions, to build relationships, and to create plots. I've done a lot of it. It was fun then. But now I want different things out of my time.

So, if I was looking to put one of my characters into a romantic relationship, I would prefer to pre-plan the interaction and see what happens.

Now, I'm not the sort to deliberately look for a romantic relationship for my characters, nor to do any sort of romance RP with strangers. But that's my personal preference, and no one else has to follow it. One approach isn't inherently better than another; they're just different, based on varied wants, needs, and purposes.

Finally, Ojene's entire romantic relationship was baked in with my RP partner when we first made the two characters. Her marriage with the guy she's known for over twenty five years. We've been playing this for two years now, and not only has it worked just fine between them, but their interaction is by far the most fulfilling romance RP I've ever done.

I can't say my other pre-planned excursions went as well. But- neither have my organic ones. What made this one work where the others did not had nothing to do with planned vs pre-planned, but rather the synergy of the characters; our strong OOC friendship; and our similar approaches, desires, and wants.

It all comes down to what we prefer.

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Faye - 07-23-2017

I tend to avoid it because I like for things to happen naturally throughout the course of the RP and let the chips fall where they may. Pre-arranged romances can sometimes feel forced or lacking in depth/detail. But I don't see any harm in it and I can totally understand why others do it. It's not as if the issues with it are inevitable. Just like trying to set up a friendship or rivalry between characters to fill a role you think is missing in your character's life, if things aren't working out, you can always just tell the other role-player. You aren't just stuck trying to force two mismatched characters together because it was an idea you had on a forum board.

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Kieron Lohengrin - 07-23-2017

(07-23-2017, 06:06 AM)Zhu Wrote: I had two pre-arranged romances and they were absolutely terrible. The characters did not get along at all and they were only together for meta garbage reasons such as the fact it was arranged ooc. Never again.

It was also shallow, as you say. Nothing interesting was happening. Sure it's nice to do the romance itself for a while but it gets hold. They actually have to offer something to eachother and I don't think pre-arragements are good for that. You just don't know what character you're getting.

I think it's much better if it happens organizally after several months of RP. That worked much better for me.

(07-23-2017, 06:19 AM)Rowena Everstone Wrote: I find pre-establishing of romance to be boring and very hollow in terms of play. Trying to force characters together just seems bland, unfilling, and makes me lose interest fairly quickly.

To me, characters are like children. They need to experience the world. They need a chance to grow. They need to experience the ups and downs of life.

(07-23-2017, 09:29 AM)AishaHeartfield Wrote:
For me personally, so much character development occurs through the complex interactions between my character and those written by other people. To skip all the experiences and interactions that may lead to an organic connection between them is to deny my character what I feel to be genuine development and progression within the world. A large part of the creative appeal of roleplay for me, as opposed to writing on my own, is to watch my character develop through unpredictable situations and engagements with others.

I feel that a prior arranged romantic roleplay would rob that creative process of its organic value and in turn, result in a character that feels forced or unnatural. It would affect my immersion.

(07-23-2017, 12:18 PM)Lydia Lightfoot Wrote: If the characters did get romantically involved they needn't be attached at the hip, of course, but if we'd only be likely to even get to RP once a week, that may make it difficult for them to have enough face time to actually form that connection

A lot of this goes back to the question, how much time have your characters actually previously spent together, not only ingame but also in your writing for each other (forum RP threads, etc.)? Do they adventure and travel together? Or is one of them maybe a highborn type, or a courtesan type, or an inn owner type who rarely travels but regularly gets letters from / is visited by the other? Would they terribly mind if one is off cavorting with the sMol in Azim Steppe, while the other is back home running a cafe in the Lavender Beds?

Slight blurring is inevitable. How much is OOC affection for someone being reliable and chill and helping you progress your leveling, versus how much is IC affection for their character paying attention to yours? Especially in a game like XIV, where a lot of later content is walled off by MSQ and dungeons. Healers gradually falling for their tanks and vice versa is a trope for a reason. This being an FF game, I also wouldn't be surprised at players who want something similar to Squall x Rinoa, Tidus x Yuna, Quina x food.

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Caspar - 07-24-2017

I've taken both approaches, though not strictly in a romance-focused sense. 
Romance is almost never a major priority for any of my RP. If it happens, that's alright, but I tend to make characters with significant challenges or goals they need to overcome, and romance is the last thing on their minds. However, I have worked closely with friends and collaborators to establish a bond between RP characters before a campaign started. These were people I trusted and whose writing I enjoyed, so I wanted to try out working with them instead of having our characters be independent. It presents problems when people flaked out, but ultimately, just because of how compatible we were writing wise, creating a relationship beforehand just codified what would have likely already happened; our characters tended to, coincidentally, mesh well together as a rule. I've also had impromptu RP romantic relationships emerge too, but these didn't really always leave a lasting impression on me, and they were almost always initiated by the other player.

Usually when these character relationships were established, they were intimate, but not romantic. I've honestly always had more interest in writing about familial relationships, sworn siblings, close friends, rather than romance. In general I can't really wrap my head around it, especially marriage RP. It feels like a difficult restriction for me personally to write around, while providing little enjoyment to me for its own sake. Unless it involves conflict or tragedy in some way, in which case my innate maudlin streak takes hold. Why, I can't really say; I'm not in a huge hurry to get married IRL, maybe that has something to do with it? Or maybe it's because I don't feel I understand how to write a well-adjusted family. Take that as you will. 

But I've definitely been in a lot of RP while, maybe there might not have been a full-on relationship developing, I've still been perfectly willing to play along with unplanned tension, and I could see something growing out of that if the campaigns lasted longer. On the other hand, I've been in campaigns where the GM tried to pair characters off forcibly, through the use of plot devices native to the setting or "destiny," and that turned out very poorly, but that had a lot to do with the innate incompatibility of our characters and the fact that we were strangers. The manner in which the romance is set up is pretty irrelevant, I think, but everyone already mentioned that. What mattered to me was that I was able to write about things I knew I could entertain others through, and working with people who shared the same desire. If I don't really understand my RP partner, how can I establish a relationship they'll enjoy writing about?

On another note, I personally think immersion is a buzzword, meant to describe a variety of factors that affect enjoyment rather than anything concrete, and too subjective to be a useful measure of quality. But that's a discussion for another time. Certainly, I don't think pre-planned RP in general has any less innate worth than spontaneous RP.

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Meena - 07-25-2017

When I first role played Gin me and a friend who I had met decided to arrange a plot where my characters father was marrying my character off to another character (another pc) for both political and monetary reasons. Not only was the roleplay very enjoyable, it was more so because the characters were forced to engage with each other when normally they might not have.

Eventually these two characters formed a very strong bond based on trust rather than instant attraction and OOC me and this player have been friends ever since.

From this standpoint, I can understand it. But coming back into a pre-decided relationship I think can be straining.

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - LiadansWhisper - 07-25-2017

In my experience, pre-arranged RP only works well when one or both characters are mostly unformed, or if two concepts just happen to mesh really well (which is more random than "pre-planned" imo).

But it can work, and I have had several that did work very well.

I've had many more that didn't work out at all, for various reason s(sometimes OOC, sometimes IC). But I've also had many started-as-random relationships that also never got off the ground. So YMMV.

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Alexandr Nocturne - 07-25-2017

There is one thing I think people might be overlooking.  Threads that say looking for romance don't always mean prearranged romance.  Sure the poster might be looking for that, but those threads can also just as easily be "Hey, I'm looking for a love interest for my character, let me know if you're interested.  We can get some RP in and see how they get along."  In a case like that, the forum post more acts as a bar, a place to meet prospective partners, not something to outright prearrange things.

That aside, I tried a prearranged relationship exactly once, in a different mmo, and it was an absolute train wreck.  It was with an in-game friend of mine.  She just got clear of a drama bomb and asked me to put my character in a relationship with one she just made.  It didn't take long to learn what sounded good on paper just didn't play out well.  The romance crashed and burned spectacularly.  The warning signs were there.  Had we even played them as friends for a month before getting them together, we would have seen it wouldn't work.

So, lesson learned.  To tie back to the start, I am not adverse to seeing how characters RP with mine, if they spark or such, but I will never, never again just outright prearrange a relationship.

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Nako Vesh - 07-25-2017

(07-23-2017, 08:54 AM)Aaron Wrote: Different strokes for different folks

I mean, this is the answer to your thread right here. Thread over.

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Lydia Lightfoot - 07-25-2017

(07-25-2017, 08:00 AM)Nako Vesh Wrote:
(07-23-2017, 08:54 AM)Aaron Wrote: Different strokes for different folks

I mean, this is the answer to your thread right here. Thread over.

Almost any question of preference could be shrugged aside in the same manner. It's been a very pleasant forum thread to read through, though, and people have expressed a lot of interesting perspectives, ones which probably wouldn't have been shared if I hadn't presented the topic in the first place.

RE: Why pre-arrange romantic RP? - Iron Bride - 07-25-2017

I've seen the spectrum on this personally over the past 10 years of RP.

I've had "whole foods organic" relationship RP that lasted for years and was full of ups and downs and was fantastic.   I've also had organic relationship RP that's been a freakin dumpster fire of annoyance and frustration OOC, no matter how well the characters seemed to get on.

My arranged relationship RP?  Same thing, only often with less OOC trouble since both parties are going into it with a particular expectation. Sometimes it works out amazing IC and can make for a fun will-they-or-won't-they story of learning to love one another, especially if the arrangement is ALSO an arranged relationship IC, too.  Sometimes, it turns out to be the worst idea ever conceived - the characters do not get along well at all despite what you expected (and not in the fun rivalmance sort of way) or even worse, the two characters are just freakin' boring together. 

These days, I would say more of my RP falls into the latter camp for romance, arranged over un-arranged.  I do take chances on the crazy random happenstance romance RP here and there, but usually the ships that I do at least a decent amount of pre-planning OOC for tend to work better and longer for me.  The whole "dating and falling in love" segment of romance RP is fun, but I think I have more fun with the part that starts when the Disney movie ends and my characters find out what it's really like to be partners in life. That usually requires an RP partner that's 1) in it for the long haul, 2) isn't living vicariously through their character to the point that they'll be upset with ups and downs, and 3) a degree of trust and maturity that I'm not likely to find out of a random someone whose character just happens to fancy mine. 

Romance RP is always kind of a gamble, though.  No matter how well you take the odds into consideration and count the cards, sometimes you still walk away from the table with nothing because it's a bad hand.  While other times you just dump change into the slot machine and it spits out a jackpot out of nowhere.  You just never know!