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+--- Thread: [Discussion] RP Racism? (/showthread.php?tid=19475)
RE: RP Racism? - Arashin Kujqai - 05-22-2017
I always thought au ra had some form of hatred at the start because of the whole ordeal with dragons and people transforming etc. Unfamiliarity seems rather simple but I wouldn't call that racism necessarily either, just ignorance lol.
RE: RP Racism? - Kilieit - 05-22-2017
From Ishgardians, yes, but he was meeting southern Eorzeans. Since he arrived a good amount of time after Yugiri's refugees, I think most people's first impression of him would probably have been "ah yes, one of those strange refugees".
I term it racism because it's a thing that happens to him, due to the establishment of Eorzea not accommodating his race, that causes him harm. Something doesn't have to be aggressive prejudice to be racism. "Microaggressions", if you will!
RE: RP Racism? - Arashin Kujqai - 05-22-2017
(05-22-2017, 09:54 PM)Kilieit Wrote: From Ishgardians, yes, but he was meeting southern Eorzeans. Since he arrived a good amount of time after Yugiri's refugees, I think most people's first impression of him would probably have been "ah yes, one of those strange refugees".I meant in general XD but yeah that's fair enough lol. Kinda like when a restaurant doesn't have support for vegetarians or veagens or something. Not specific racism but rather not accounted for....
I term it racism because it's a thing that happens to him, due to the establishment of Eorzea not accommodating his race, that causes him harm. Something doesn't have to be aggressive prejudice to be racism. "Microaggressions", if you will!
Still, no one's listed any specific slang or terms so far XD. Just maybe thoughts or stereotypes, though I guess when gobbies call miqo'tes "purrgrowlers" it's less racist and more adorable LOL(despite miqo'te hate being referred to as cats?).
RE: RP Racism? - Sounsyy - 05-22-2017
(05-22-2017, 07:22 PM)Erahsae Wrote:(05-21-2017, 12:48 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: It's a bit more complicated than that. Ala Mhigan refugees initially showed up in Gridania and Coerthas, and both cities closed their gates to them altogether. When they came to Ul'dah, they were told they could stay, but they were denied citizenship, employment, and provisions. The only work that was initially offered them was sex work. Ul'dah's unemployment problem was then exacerbated tenfold with the coming of the Adventurer movement, which began putting many commonfolk out of business across the city-states.
Many Ala Mhigans began setting up settlements in the sultanate lands or moving into run down places like Silver Bazaar. Because no one wanted them there because Ul'dahns viewed them as worthless because they had no money, many merchants and consortiums attempted to bulldoze the areas they had set up camp to make room for mansions and plantations for Ul'dah's most wealthy. You can read more about Ul'dah's treatment of the Ala Mhigans here.
You can also throw in more problems / resentment towards Ala Mhigan refugees due to the whole trying to invade Gridania bit as well.
As Stormblood draws nearer on the horizon, this has definitely been a commonplace sentiment that I've been trying to abolish. It's actually fanon. Justifiable fanon, if your character is the type to hold WWII against modern day Germans (edit: poor example), but ultimately... this sentiment is neither represented nor referenced by any NPC anywhere in 1.0, 2.0, or 3.0. In fact, the only time any NPC blames the Autumn War for Ala Mhigan prejudice, it's an Immortal Flame soldier claiming that the reason Ala Mhigans hate Ul'dahns is because of the Autumn War.
Annabel Wrote:The Immortal Flames oversee the protection of Little Ala Mhigo, but from the looks the locals give us, you'd think our two nations were still at war.
Which... if you've read anything about how Ul'dah has treated the Ala Mhigans refugees, you'd be intimately aware of several more relevant and immediate reasons why Ala Mhigans, particularly those in Little Ala Mhigo, despise Ul'dahns.
So why do so many cling to a war one-hundred years done? I think it's because the Autumn War is well known bit of Ala Mhigan history - perhaps the most well known aspect of it, in fact. Afterall, we've been told before that many of the races disliked one another due to simmering conflicts in years past, scars that just never healed. It kind of made sense, until that is, you take a closer look at the refugee crisis and its affects on the city-states now and during the last 15-20 years.
Could the Autumn War be a contributing factor? Perhaps. But Gridania and Ishgard have also gone to war against each other. And Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah have been biting and clawing at each other for nearly 400 years, even into the year 1572 where the two nations actively attempted to sabotage each other's grand companies.
Of the five nations involved in the Autumn War, the only nations who came away at a loss were Gridania and Ala Mhigo. By involving themselves in Gridania's affairs, Ishgard was able to keep its own border protected - but more importantly, it effectively ended 400 years of Gridanian isolationism and independence. Ishgard and Gridania's long-standing stalemate at the border ended and the two nations became staunch allies afterward, but Gridania was forced to give up a portion of its vast natural resources to the other nations in trade. Ul'dah also stood to benefit from this on as many or more fronts: Gridanian trade meant their caravans would be protected in the Black Shroud, a place where most Ul'dahns feared to go. Ul'dah was also able to force Ala Mhigo to reduce their tariffs for trade and safe passage across their lands to the east - effectively neutering Ala Mhigo's economy, which would pave the way for the rise of the Fist of Rhalgr whittling away the king's political power, eventually giving rise to Theodoric's reign of ruin, and finally Ala Mhigo's fall.
Hope that helps clear some things up! ^^;
RE: RP Racism? - Eses Fafa - 05-22-2017
I'm sure we don't need the talk on how IRL racism is bad, but admittedly I dabble in the guilty pleasure of ICly making fun of Seekers of the Sun for their incestuous backgrounds. Though, there would be plenty of causes for people to be racist towards fellow Eorzeans that aren't Beast Tribes; Hydaelyn knows we've killed enough of those.
- Vast difference in build causing intimidation or jealousy. (That Roe's size scares me or that 'Qote's adorably timid frame makes me jelly..what? No, totally not placing favourites.)
- A member of another race committing a horrific crime that forces your character into a state of prejudice.
- Preconceived notions of the popular negative personality traits of other races told to you by people. (To be fair, I wouldn't go near most Miqo'te if the very LORE says they're commonly xenophobic or reclusive)
- That person is different and Papa-Uncle-Cousin Cletus told you difference is bad.
Plenty of other reasons, but those are some of the most common. Doesn't hurt to spice this cutesy world up with some EVIL I suppose.
RE: RP Racism? - Erah'sae - 05-23-2017
(05-22-2017, 10:25 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:(05-22-2017, 07:22 PM)Erah Wrote:(05-21-2017, 12:48 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: It's a bit more complicated than that. Ala Mhigan refugees initially showed up in Gridania and Coerthas, and both cities closed their gates to them altogether. When they came to Ul'dah, they were told they could stay, but they were denied citizenship, employment, and provisions. The only work that was initially offered them was sex work. Ul'dah's unemployment problem was then exacerbated tenfold with the coming of the Adventurer movement, which began putting many commonfolk out of business across the city-states.
Many Ala Mhigans began setting up settlements in the sultanate lands or moving into run down places like Silver Bazaar. Because no one wanted them there because Ul'dahns viewed them as worthless because they had no money, many merchants and consortiums attempted to bulldoze the areas they had set up camp to make room for mansions and plantations for Ul'dah's most wealthy. You can read more about Ul'dah's treatment of the Ala Mhigans here.
You can also throw in more problems / resentment towards Ala Mhigan refugees due to the whole trying to invade Gridania bit as well.
As Stormblood draws nearer on the horizon, this has definitely been a commonplace sentiment that I've been trying to abolish. It's actually fanon. Justifiable fanon, if your character is the type to hold WWII against modern day Germans, but ultimately... this sentiment is neither represented nor referenced by any NPC anywhere in 1.0, 2.0, or 3.0. In fact, the only time any NPC blames the Autumn War for Ala Mhigan prejudice, it's an Immortal Flame soldier claiming that the reason Ala Mhigans hate Ul'dahns is because of the Autumn War.
Ahh you're right on that. Â I got the time frames mixed up with the Autumn War which was, now that I've looked it up a bit over 100 years previous to the calamity. Â I had in my head that it was a lot more recent.
I can also see the Calamity and other Garleanian events leading up to it as a big buffer over any resentment over the Autum War. Â Something like the Calamity does cause a huge unifying influence.
RE: RP Racism? - Valence - 05-23-2017
Just throwing that here, but there is still anger around in Europe directed at Germany for WW2. Mostly from old people that actually were alive when it happened, or direct children of the post war, but I remember consistently having grown in an environment where germans were often referred to in very derogatory manners, and this, despite the efforts of building the EEC and then the EU. It was literally everywhere.
We are well past 20 years after my early childhood though, true, and this has mostly vanished, or in the way of doing so. It's not as clear cut as it sounds. Of course, it can be argued that the Autumn War had nothing to do with something on the scale of WWII. So I would naturally tend to go with what the game lore shows, which is little enmity.
RE: RP Racism? - Yian Kutku - 05-23-2017
(05-23-2017, 03:30 PM)Valence Wrote: Just throwing that here, but there is still anger around in Europe directed at Germany for WW2. Mostly from old people that actually were alive when it happened, or direct children of the post war, but I remember consistently having grown in an environment where germans were often referred to in very derogatory manners, and this, despite the efforts of building the EEC and then the EU. It was literally everywhere.
Also compare the anger and mutual racism between China and Japan (and Korea, although I'm less familiar with that). Most of the justification for the anger is from WW2, but dig a bit deeper and it turns out the hatred is almost entirely because "it's always been that way". WW2 was just the most obvious go-to in a long, long line of reasons to hate the Other.
It pops up in unexpected places. Much of the time, it's from the older generation as mentioned, but sometimes it gets brought up by politicians as political football, or in sudden ranting screeds from younger people.
Even the milder forms of racism can still be troublesome. I hear a lot of "you can't trust them" and "they don't know our ways", or even "they're not so bad, as long as you keep an eye on them", which strikes me as more than a little backhanded.
RE: RP Racism? - Vexander - 05-23-2017
As far as the Autumn War goes, I'm not sure, but there MAY be some people who were around for that. The older Padjals. I think brother E-Sumi Yan is the oldest living one, no? The head of the Conjurer's Guild? I'm not sure how old he is exactly, but he might've been alive for the Autumn War. Though I suppose the Elementals certainly would remember and I don't know if they have a lifespan at all.
RE: RP Racism? - Sounsyy - 05-23-2017
(05-23-2017, 03:30 PM)Valence Wrote: Of course, it can be argued that the Autumn War had nothing to do with something on the scale of WWII. So I would naturally tend to go with what the game lore shows, which is little enmity.
Perhaps the Berlin wall not falling until much more recently played some small part? But in any case, an admittedly poor comparison. It just held a similar time difference. Though, there could still be people in Eorzea who hold that war against the Ala Mhigans. That's a personal character choice, I just wanted to make it clear that there's nothing in lore that supports such prejudices.
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(05-23-2017, 05:11 PM)Vexander Wrote: As far as the Autumn War goes, I'm not sure, but there MAY be some people who were around for that. The older Padjals. I think brother E-Sumi Yan is the oldest living one, no? The head of the Conjurer's Guild? I'm not sure how old he is exactly, but he might've been alive for the Autumn War. Though I suppose the Elementals certainly would remember and I don't know if they have a lifespan at all.
E-Sumi-Yan is the oldest living padjal, but claims to have stopped counting his age after his 100th birthday, though scholars guesstimate he is close to 230 years old. He'd have definitely been alive during the Autumn War in any case.
Many elementals would've been alive during the time period and they might remember the war, but they wouldn't care. The elementals do not see flags or nationalities. The outcome of a conflict does not interest them. They care only that their wood is safe. If the Ala Mhigans had caused any irreparable harm to the Wood during the Autumn War, the elementals would've expelled every man from their borders, Gridanian and Ala Mhigan, as they did following the 6th Umbral Calamity. Though there's no Autumn War lore that suggests the Ala Mhigans sought to damage the wood during their campaign. In fact, the integrity of the wood, the denseness of the underbrush, and the closeness of the trees at Five Hangs (just north of the Mirror) proved to be the Ala Mhigan army's downfall in the Second Battle of Tinolqa, as the tight formations and longpikes could not be wielded efficiently so near Gridania.
RE: RP Racism? - Jean L - 05-25-2017
I mean I RP a Hyur most of the time and my other character is an alt that I rarely RP with who's an Au Ra who WOULD experience prejudice from Ishgardians. Jean also is in a relationship with an Au Ra while also being from Ishgard so I'd imagine that his taste in partners would be met with outright hate. I'm wondering if it would be viewed as heretical to be with an Au Ra in Ishgard?
RE: RP Racism? - TrueGota - 05-25-2017
(05-21-2017, 12:48 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: There's a lot of racism thrown around in the game, yes. Mostly because the five Eorzean races have been going at it back and forth throughout history and have only relatively recently truly been forced to work and live together peacefully.I hope you don't mind the question but how do you think the situation would be if it was the opposite of that? Like, the races of a world were working/living together for millenia instead of recently? Asking for something outside of FF14.
RE: RP Racism? - Sounsyy - 05-25-2017
(05-25-2017, 06:57 AM)Jade Wrote: I'm wondering if it would be viewed as heretical to be with an Au Ra in Ishgard?
Sidurgu and the Orl tribe of Xaela came to Coerthas fleeing Garlean-occupied Othard. They arrived in 1562, fifteen years ago, which followed a recent resurgence of Dravanian attacks following the 8th Awakening of Nidhogg. During this 8th Awakening, Nidhogg razed several Coerthan hamlets, including Ferndale. There is some contention over the exact date, however. Part of the lore book and in game lore dates this attack at 1557, while the Encyclopedia's timeline erroneously lists the attack as having occurred in 1562. In any case, this would've been a terrible time period for anyone/anything with scales to arrive in Ishgard.
Sidurgu Orl Wrote:The first Ishgardians to encounter Au Ra saw Dravanians. We had fled Garlemald's armies only to come to a land where we were mistaken for another nation's mortal enemy. They bared steel and came to kill us... but we did not die so easily. We spared them and sent them on their way... and how do you think they repaid our kindness? With fire and blood! With death for every man, woman, and child!
...I was about Rielle's age when I came to Ishgard. My parents, they... they said we would find a better life here. When the Temple Knights we had shown mercy returned, they let us choose the order in which we would die. That would be their mercy to us, they declared.
The Orl tribe was wiped out and Sidurgu the only survivor. However, this was 15 years ago. With more Auri refugees flooding into Eorzea in the past year and a better scholarly understanding that these Spoken are not kin to dragons in any way, Ishgard seems to have relaxed on wholesale slaughter of the race. That's not to say there aren't those in Ishgard who might hold such prejudices still, but killing an Au Ra would now be considered murder.
Fernehalwes Wrote:Now, as for how the Au Ra are regarded by others living in Eorzea, while there was racial tension in past ages, recently with the onset of the Age of Adventure and an influx in the amount of people of all races flocking to Eorzea, there truly isn’t any form of heavy discrimination towards the Au Ra (it also helps that because very few Au Ra ever visited Eorzea before, there is little deep-seated hate stemming from historical conflict). However, because they are new to Eorzea and there is much mystery surrounding them, a lot of native Eorzeans are still a bit wary (even if they don’t really know why).
So, "heretical"? Maybe not. But definitely frowned upon! It'd definitely earn suspicious eyes, turning of heads, hushed whispers, etc. But Sidurgu has been living inside Ishgard for some time now, and he's somehow managed to escape the label of heretic.
Hope that helps! ^^
EDIT:
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(05-25-2017, 08:03 AM)TrueGota Wrote:(05-21-2017, 12:48 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: There's a lot of racism thrown around in the game, yes. Mostly because the five Eorzean races have been going at it back and forth throughout history and have only relatively recently truly been forced to work and live together peacefully.I hope you don't mind the question but how do you think the situation would be if it was the opposite of that? Like, the races of a world were working/living together for millenia instead of recently? Asking for something outside of FF14.
Um, I don't think I could honestly say? The game's world is painted by historical conflicts dating back before the Allagans 5000 years ago. I don't think it would be anything close to the world of FFXIV we have now. It's really something the game's lore team would have to answer.
RE: RP Racism? - Kallera - 05-25-2017
War is often a wellspring of a lot of hate and prejudice. We might see some directed toward ala mighans and garleans depending on how Eorzea's fortunes play out.
RE: RP Racism? - Jean L - 05-25-2017
(05-25-2017, 08:10 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:Â I'm actually going through the DRK questline right now. Sid's words are what made me wonder how relationships with Au Ra with other races would be frowned on in Ishgard especially. Given this information I'm guessing it'd be fair to assume someone non-Au Ra being in a relationship with an Au Ra would be viewed as a traitor by some of the less understanding, extreme members of Ishgard.(05-25-2017, 06:57 AM)Jade Wrote: I'm wondering if it would be viewed as heretical to be with an Au Ra in Ishgard?
Sidurgu and the Orl tribe of Xaela came to Coerthas fleeing Garlean-occupied Othard. They arrived in 1562, fifteen years ago, which followed a recent resurgence of Dravanian attacks following the 8th Awakening of Nidhogg. During this 8th Awakening, Nidhogg razed several Coerthan hamlets, including Ferndale. There is some contention over the exact date, however. Part of the lore book and in game lore dates this attack at 1557, while the Encyclopedia's timeline erroneously lists the attack as having occurred in 1562. In any case, this would've been a terrible time period for anyone/anything with scales to arrive in Ishgard.