Hydaelyn Role-Players
[Discussion] Four brothers far too much? Keeper Lore Question. - Printable Version

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Four brothers far too much? Keeper Lore Question. - StonerSunshine - 04-30-2017

So I'm a newbie when it comes to RP. Today I decided to use my Fantasia, then Transfer+namechange my old Keeper of the Moon from way back when I first played some years ago.

However in my attempt to find a pleasing name I ended up making him a bit of a special snowflake, be it that his name includes the 'ra suffix, making him the fifth son. When a guild member saw I had added this to my nickname in the discord channel, it prompted a discussion on how lore breaking it'd be to have 4 brothers even when it's explicitly stated that even the largest of Keeper clans rarely have more than two or three sons. We decided to drop it since I stated that I won't be doing much RP on that character to begin with or adding them to the FC but it still bothers me that my quest for aesthetics lead to me creating a RP faux-pas. So the questions I want to ask are;

Just how badly did I mess up? Keeper families are already smaller due to being quite insular but exactly how large is a family unit? Realistically speaking, my own RL grandma on my dads side had 11 kids, 8 of which were daughters and I'm the last of 5 children, all guys. So is there anything explicitly saying that my character's mother couldn't have possibly birthed say(purely for example) 16 children in her lifetime? Does the world of FFXIV even go by today's standards on what a typical family unit consists of, particularly what number makes up a "normal" family and what would be seen as a large/excessively large one?

This is all keeping in mind that giving birth to one male doesn't or rather shouldn't improve the chances of the mother giving birth to more females or decrease the chance of giving birth to another male. 'Cause if it did, then Hydaelyn's got some wickedly authoritarian scale balancing going on.

RE: Four brothers far too much? Keeper Lore Question. - L'ohba Tia - 04-30-2017

The suffix exists for a reason. However insanely rare it might be to have that many boys, it's still possible.

RE: Four brothers far too much? Keeper Lore Question. - Kilieit - 04-30-2017

I believe about 1 in 10 Miqo'te children is born such that he is assigned male? (I could be wrong there but I'm using that ratio as the example for the rest of my post for ease's sake.)

As you say, the lore naming conventions for Keepers provide suffixes for up to the 10th son. But statistically, because Keepers aren't born in a 1:1 gender ratio like humans, that means that 10th boy would have 90 sisters from the same mother.

So, then... it's more likely that for a 10th son (or, y'know, 5th son) to be born, either some of his older brothers were identical twins (allowing 2 boys to be born from 1 pregnancy - potentially placing your 5th son within the "2 or 3 pregnancies" thing), or that particular branch of the family is an anomaly in whatever it is that causes Miqo'te children to normally be born at a 1:9 gender ratio.

The fact the suffixes exist and are apparently in enough knowledge that they're a unified convention across all Keepers of the Moon suggests both that it has happened at some point, and that the occurrence is either famous or (while rare overall) common enough that it was remembered.

RE: Four brothers far too much? Keeper Lore Question. - Cyef'a - 04-30-2017

The fact that the suffix exists at all should show that it's perfectly fine. For Keeper families to have that many males is unusual, yes but, that's purely because males are supposed to be such a minority for the race. I'm not entirely sure about the size of most families for Keepers but, the best guess would be a sort of average of three to five. Again, don't quote me on this as it's only based on the little amount of Keeper lore I can remember off the top of my head.

Point being: The suffix exists, and while rare, there's nothing to say it can't happen.

RE: Four brothers far too much? Keeper Lore Question. - Unnamed Mercenary - 04-30-2017

It should be noted that miqo'te reproduction isn't some robotic formula. While the ration of males to females is somewhere around 1:10-1:15 or so, it's not as if a mother couldn't have possibly had all sons. It would just make an uncommon occurance into something pretty rare. Or perhaps twins played into the larger number?

Honestly, I don't think you're really going to be turning too many heads for simply picking a suffix you liked. We don't have any hard numbers on how large Miqo'te families/clans/tribes really are aside from the lore telling us they're one of the less-populous races when compared to say, bunnies-in-spring Hyur.

So go for it. Give it some meaning for your character! This is an excellent option to write up some backstory your character could bring up or something that could become a plot point later. The only suggestion I could really give is don't just let it be another fact that's never brought up on a wiki page or only mentioned in passing. Use the lore to your advantage and create some RP hooks with it!

RE: Four brothers far too much? Keeper Lore Question. - StonerSunshine - 04-30-2017

(04-30-2017, 09:09 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: Give it some meaning for your character! This is an excellent option to write up some backstory your character could bring up or something that could become a plot point later. The only suggestion I could really give is don't just let it be another fact that's never brought up on a wiki page or only mentioned in passing. Use the lore to your advantage and create some RP hooks with it!
While I haven't fully fleshed out his backstory yet I was going to use the fact that I chose his citystate as
Limsa Lominsa all those years ago to my advantage and just say that he's a whoreson but with your and other users suggestion that his older brothers may be twins could help.

Thanks for suggestion and to others for their helpful and quick replies!

RE: Four brothers far too much? Keeper Lore Question. - Valence - 05-01-2017

You could potentially... go the adoption road too. Nothing prevents a keeper mother to adopt one or two male siblings orphaned for a reason or another, and include them in her list of male names.

RE: Four brothers far too much? Keeper Lore Question. - Nebbs - 05-01-2017

5th son.. that's unpossible!

What is happening to the world, is nothing sacred.. why next we will see the seas turning into fire and the moon come crashing down... It's a world gone mad!

Seriously, just go with rare and fine. Why they would make a big deal about it OOC I don't know, it should be a talking point IC.

RE: Four brothers far too much? Keeper Lore Question. - Momo - 05-01-2017

A friend of mine uses a far outlying suffix to signal his mother's distaste for him from birth. He has siblings, but of his siblings, his father was the most hated by his mother, and so when she had that man's child, she gave his son an impossibly far out family line marker to symbolize that.

Just food for thought~

RE: Four brothers far too much? Keeper Lore Question. - Lydia Lightfoot - 05-01-2017

Man, the things people stress out about, right? 

I'm with the others. The existence of the suffix suggests precedent, regardless of the nature (adoption, twins, luck, etc). 

You don't have to write a backstory for your character's mom's uterus.

RE: Four brothers far too much? Keeper Lore Question. - Aegir - 05-01-2017

(05-01-2017, 01:50 PM)Lydia Lightfoot Wrote: Man, the things people stress out about, right? 

I'm with the others. The existence of the suffix suggests precedent, regardless of the nature (adoption, twins, luck, etc). 

You don't have to write a backstory for your character's mom's uterus.

"Day 260... Conditions inside the structure are becoming cramped and inhospitable..."

RE: Four brothers far too much? Keeper Lore Question. - Erah'sae - 05-01-2017

Let me start by saying, the RP around being a low birth rank male Keeper is absolutely fine.

There are a few of us sae's around.  While it's not uncommon it's probably looked on poorly socially speaking.  (RP wise, it's more than fine)

Picture this in your head.  Remember the old outdated real world notion of a need for male children to keep the bloodline going.  Especially in the pre-empire days of Rome where women weren't really documented as having real names either but just 2nd Daughter of Such and Such and the link.  1st daughters were important.  They were alliance makers, treasured prizes and the like.  2nd daughters were good for securing support and trade deals and the like.  Beyond that.... well, you got the rumors.  Why couldn't there have been more sons?  What's wrong with the father.  his seed must be weak, etc.  This is something you still see today in some cultures.

Now turn that around, gender wise.  

Keepers are a culture where males don't even get their own names.  That right there says something about keeper society.  A 1st son, that's prime breeding material.  That's someone to be bartered off for status and position.  A 2nd might be good for securing alliances and what not.  A 3rd?  meh...  a 4th... ye gods.... a 5th.... well... someone is a weak progenitor to not have had more daughters. 

It's what prompted me to created a 'sae.  An interesting and eye opening view of a gender swapped society.

Your character is a fifth son.  
A -fifth-
Why couldn't that deadbeat of a mate not have given us more females.  The line isn't going to preserve itself.

Here's your brush 'ra.  At least you can clean the scullary.

Sorry, I got a little rambly there.