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+--- Thread: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion (/showthread.php?tid=18784)
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - Virella - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 07:47 AM)Teadrinker Wrote: Flamboyant, tuxedo wearing mages from....the harsh mountains where they can barely grow food I'mWell in SE defence, we really don't know what Ala Mhigan 'aesthetic' is. We've seen the Fist of Rhalgr, who are wierdo religious cult esque group, and a heap of poor hobos, refugees and mercenaries.
That said, I don't think it is that far-fetched beyond the 'flamboyant' aesthetic (once more for all we know it might be legit Ala Mhigan aesthetic >_>). Perhaps the RDM class was the 'upper' class type of job? Nobles ect? Ala Mhigans were after all super advanced compared to any other Eorzean city. So writing it off on "well they had to focus on survival" doesn't make exactly sense. They were a wartorn area, and if real life logic applies a little bit to it, nations who actively war then to progress quickly on warfare, so I don't see why it would be far-fetched to have RMD to have its origins there.
I think we were all just thrown off by the fact it looks super flamboyant. Honestly, aesthetic wise I could have said Ishgardian, but alas.
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - Sounsyy - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 07:47 AM)Teadrinker Wrote: Flamboyant, tuxedo wearing mages from....the harsh mountains where they can barely grow food
Magic and science is something you focus on when not every hour of your day is going to basic survival which is what this area has just touted since it's inception. Bleh. I'm sure they'll find a way to inject it though...
There's nothing in the official lore blurb that suggests Red Mages are around today. In fact, it'd be highly unlikely given the region's circumstances. As with most jobs, it's an ancient art that will face a "revival" at the hands of the WoL and eager adventurers.
So we can safely guesstimate their time period of existence around Years 1 - 350 ish, which is before the founding of Ala Mhigo, the solidification of the Fists of Rhalgr religion in the region, and during the height of the mage purges.
So the reason that there's tuxedo wearing mages in a harsh region with little food is because the mages were already there to begin with. You have a high population of magi refugees in the region, that magical talent isn't going to just go away just because their magicks are illegal. It makes more sense to have magic here than in any other region. Also given the fact it was the discovery of magic in the Fifth Umbral Era that brought civilization out of that dark time period, so perhaps they hoped a new form of magic born of their unity would help see them through the rising tide of destruction.
Side note: Also yes, very likely made of wool. Highlanders have been shepherding in the Abalathia region for 3000 years.
Encyclopedia Eorzea Wrote:Sheep were domesticated by the Highlanders during the Age of Endless Frost. They spent countless years breeding the beastkin in an effort to produce animals that yielded a greater quantity of wool. The result is a species which now seems more fleece than flesh. Wild sheep can be seen grazing the grassy regions of La Noscea and Coerthas.
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - Teadrinker - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 08:18 AM)Virella Wrote:(04-13-2017, 07:47 AM)Teadrinker Wrote: Flamboyant, tuxedo wearing mages from....the harsh mountains where they can barely grow food I'mWell in SE defence, we really don't know what Ala Mhigan 'aesthetic' is. We've seen the Fist of Rhalgr, who are wierdo religious cult esque group, and a heap of poor hobos, refugees and mercenaries.
That said, I don't think it is that far-fetched beyond the 'flamboyant' aesthetic (once more for all we know it might be legit Ala Mhigan aesthetic >_>. Perhaps the RDM class was the 'upper' class type of job? Nobles ect? Ala Mhigans were after all super advanced compared to any other Eorzean city. So writing it off on "well they had to focus on survival" doesn't make exactly sense. They were a wartorn area, and if real life logic applies a little bit to it, nations who actively war then to progress quickly on warfare, so I don't see why it would be far-fetched to have RMD to have its origins there.
I think we were all just thrown off by the fact it looks super flamboyant. Honestly, aesthetic wise I could have said Ishgardian, but alas.
Yeah, applying real life logic to the vedeo games never ends well. x.e I was taking in the direction of having the hierarchy of needs met like you need X met before you can focus on Y. X being food, shelter, etc and Y being developing anything cerebral.
Just from everything I saw in the game and read in the lorebook just led me to believe that the people in this area were hardass, tough as nails, martial af, 'punch you in the mouth and steal the food out of it' people until the unification and even even they didn't have a ton of resources. I think there's about 300-400 years in there though before the Fist came along where they were high off trade route coin where they might fit?
Note: Not a super fan nor super good at lore for this region. Just glossing over it and pointing out what makes sense to my mind.
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - PhantasticPanda - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 08:18 AM)Virella Wrote:(04-13-2017, 07:47 AM)Teadrinker Wrote: Flamboyant, tuxedo wearing mages from....the harsh mountains where they can barely grow food I'mWell in SE defence, we really don't know what Ala Mhigan 'aesthetic' is. We've seen the Fist of Rhalgr, who are wierdo religious cult esque group, and a heap of poor hobos, refugees and mercenaries.
That said, I don't think it is that far-fetched beyond the 'flamboyant' aesthetic (once more for all we know it might be legit Ala Mhigan aesthetic >_>). Perhaps the RDM class was the 'upper' class type of job? Nobles ect? Ala Mhigans were after all super advanced compared to any other Eorzean city. So writing it off on "well they had to focus on survival" doesn't make exactly sense. They were a wartorn area, and if real life logic applies a little bit to it, nations who actively war then to progress quickly on warfare, so I don't see why it would be far-fetched to have RMD to have its origins there.
I think we were all just thrown off by the fact it looks super flamboyant. Honestly, aesthetic wise I could have said Ishgardian, but alas.
Maybe we're looking into it too deeply atm with Ala Mhigan influence. So far we only know Red Mages came from the ancestors of Amdapor and Mhachi, around the same region that houses Ala Mhigo, and if I recall correctly, they were primarily Midlander Hyurs and Lalafells. With Ala Mhigans being dominantly Highlanders, it could be as Sounssy stated, the Red Mages could have came before the Ala Mhigans, only to seclude themselves again as they came into power, which could explain their current 'absence'. I honestly don't see Ala Mhigans as the mage sort of society which they have focused so much on lancer legions and monks.
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - Gegenji - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 12:22 PM)PhantasticPanda Wrote:(04-13-2017, 08:18 AM)Virella Wrote:(04-13-2017, 07:47 AM)Teadrinker Wrote: Flamboyant, tuxedo wearing mages from....the harsh mountains where they can barely grow food I'mWell in SE defence, we really don't know what Ala Mhigan 'aesthetic' is. We've seen the Fist of Rhalgr, who are wierdo religious cult esque group, and a heap of poor hobos, refugees and mercenaries.
That said, I don't think it is that far-fetched beyond the 'flamboyant' aesthetic (once more for all we know it might be legit Ala Mhigan aesthetic >_>). Perhaps the RDM class was the 'upper' class type of job? Nobles ect? Ala Mhigans were after all super advanced compared to any other Eorzean city. So writing it off on "well they had to focus on survival" doesn't make exactly sense. They were a wartorn area, and if real life logic applies a little bit to it, nations who actively war then to progress quickly on warfare, so I don't see why it would be far-fetched to have RMD to have its origins there.
I think we were all just thrown off by the fact it looks super flamboyant. Honestly, aesthetic wise I could have said Ishgardian, but alas.
Maybe we're looking into it too deeply atm with Ala Mhigan influence. So far we only know Red Mages came from the ancestors of Amdapor and Mhachi, around the same region that houses Ala Mhigo, and if I recall correctly, they were primarily Midlander Hyurs and Lalafells. With Ala Mhigans being dominantly Highlanders, it could be as Sounssy stated, the Red Mages could have came before the Ala Mhigans, only to seclude themselves again as they came into power, which could explain their current 'absence'. I honestly don't see Ala Mhigans as the mage sort of society which they have focused so much on lancer legions and monks.
Not going to lie, when I read the bit about them fleeing the mountains of Ala Mhigo and whatnot... the first thing that came to mind was that jungle full of dinosaurs that apparently exists at the... south pole? in the X-Men universe. Just, instead of dinosaurs, it's a hidden enclave of ancient magic.
... which then immediately made me think of Dalaran and its big barrier shield in the older versions of WoW.
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - LystAP - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 12:30 PM)Gegenji Wrote:(04-13-2017, 12:22 PM)PhantasticPanda Wrote:(04-13-2017, 08:18 AM)Virella Wrote:(04-13-2017, 07:47 AM)Teadrinker Wrote: Flamboyant, tuxedo wearing mages from....the harsh mountains where they can barely grow food I'mWell in SE defence, we really don't know what Ala Mhigan 'aesthetic' is. We've seen the Fist of Rhalgr, who are wierdo religious cult esque group, and a heap of poor hobos, refugees and mercenaries.
That said, I don't think it is that far-fetched beyond the 'flamboyant' aesthetic (once more for all we know it might be legit Ala Mhigan aesthetic >_>
I think we were all just thrown off by the fact it looks super flamboyant. Honestly, aesthetic wise I could have said Ishgardian, but alas.
Maybe we're looking into it too deeply atm with Ala Mhigan influence. So far we only know Red Mages came from the ancestors of Amdapor and Mhachi, around the same region that houses Ala Mhigo, and if I recall correctly, they were primarily Midlander Hyurs and Lalafells. With Ala Mhigans being dominantly Highlanders, it could be as Sounssy stated, the Red Mages could have came before the Ala Mhigans, only to seclude themselves again as they came into power, which could explain their current 'absence'. I honestly don't see Ala Mhigans as the mage sort of society which they have focused so much on lancer legions and monks.
Not going to lie, when I read the bit about them fleeing the mountains of Ala Mhigo and whatnot... the first thing that came to mind was that jungle full of dinosaurs that apparently exists at the... south pole? in the X-Men universe. Just, instead of dinosaurs, it's a hidden enclave of ancient magic.
... which then immediately made me think of Dalaran and its big barrier shield in the older versions of WoW.
Of note, I recall that the Black Mage corpses in Weeping City seem to be Highlanders.
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - PhantasticPanda - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 12:50 PM)LystAP Wrote: Of note, I recall that the Black Mage corpses in Weeping City seem to be Highlanders.
I think the dominant appearance of Hyurs in primarily Lalafells nations like Mhachi or even the mummies in Lalafellan tombs in Warn is just so.... We can actually see and fight them in a party/raid setting >.>
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - Saravahn - 04-13-2017
With any luck, the more detailed lore will state that it's not WoL "power tier" magic. Being a mix of two schools... maybe it'll be "dumbed down" so that the average Joe can use it without going through super special snowflake lore breaking school.
Not holding my breath. I'm expecting our local lore cat to be right. WoL only.
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - Nero - 04-13-2017
Well, it's not entirely surprising, and really it's not as implausible as it sounds.
Mountains can provide for thriving civilisations. Creative use of vertical space and implementation of terrace farming can provide for a sustainable population (historical example: literally any Andean civilisation ever) and an ample supply of agriculture. In FF, red magic has historically always been a mix of white and black magic, so the Amdapor-Mhach union was inevitable.
Also, I'm pretty sure people are focusing on the "flamboyant fencer" image way too much. While it's outright stated that RDM used rapiers from the very beginning, bear in mind that the feathered hat is most likely a modern interpretation of red mages i.e. it's what current practitioners wear, and it's probably what the RDM job mentor will be wearing.
A few hundred years ago when the Amdapori and Mhach were still getting things started, you can bet that red mages were dirt farmers with rapiers wearing whatever clothing they brought with them at the time. A couple of centuries gives massive room to change.
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - Gegenji - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 01:02 PM)Nero Wrote: A few hundred years ago when the Amdapori and Mhach were still getting things started, you can bet that red mages were dirt farmers with rapiers wearing whatever clothing they brought with them at the time. A couple of centuries gives massive room to change.
Obviously the term "Red Mage" comes from the clay that caked their clothes as they eked out a living up on the mountains.
... Honestly, that's always been an odd egg to me. Why call the combination of black and white magic "red magic"? Unless it's another DnD reference, this time to the Wizards of High Sorcery from Dragonlance.
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - Virella - 04-13-2017
(04-13-2017, 01:05 PM)Gegenji Wrote:Because grey magic doesn't sound that awesome? Hells if we know!(04-13-2017, 01:02 PM)Nero Wrote: A few hundred years ago when the Amdapori and Mhach were still getting things started, you can bet that red mages were dirt farmers with rapiers wearing whatever clothing they brought with them at the time. A couple of centuries gives massive room to change.
Obviously the term "Red Mage" comes from the clay that caked their clothes as they eked out a living up on the mountains.
... Honestly, that's always been an odd egg to me. Why call the combination of black and white magic "red magic"? Unless it's another DnD reference, this time to the Wizards of High Sorcery from Dragonlance.
Back on topic though... Given the lack of seeing them, unless they pull a 'they were always there but not really' type of thing, I suppose they got either rooted out and it will another super exclusive job, or perhaps the people in Gyr Abania somehow forgotten about it, or perhaps it was just one village with Mhachi/Amdapori people who practised it and their numbers are super low, or indeed wiped out again for x reason.
I just don't want more WoL only jobs x_X
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - Obsidian - 04-13-2017
I say red magic is too complex beyond our mind.
Or it trying to be a hipster
![[Image: 030829.png]](http://www.nuklearpower.com/comics/8-bit-theater/030829.png)
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - Parth Makeo - 04-13-2017
- delete -
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - Theryl - 04-13-2017
Poor mountaineers can still dress up in flashy clothes. 16th century Swiss mercenaries wore the same puff and slash clothes, fancy hats, and bling as their German, French, and Italian counterparts.Â
Wool was a major trade commodity for centuries so it wouldn't be surprising if there wasn't a thriving wool trade to bring in food and luxuries (at least for the upper classes).
RE: RDM Lore Hypotheses and Discussion - Kismet - 04-13-2017
(03-08-2017, 02:42 PM)Kismet Wrote: If it turns out that RDM gets locked behind a Special Snowflake Wall like BLM/WHM, I have a guess that the lore could possibly be something like... a separate sect of casters during the time of the War of Magi tried to combine the two warring disciplines and ending up creating something that was eventually refined into Red Magic, only to be shunned and/or forgotten due to [insert conflict here].
This was my original theory from earlier in the thread, so it seems like I was definitely in the ballpark...
Now I just have to hope it's not also some super special locked off thing like I predicted. Otherwise, I'm going to have a really hard time justifying how the heck my character is supposed to mentor someone else in that art. (That or we may end up needing to ditch the idea almost entirely.) T_T