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Races outside of Eorzea - Mika - 02-16-2017
I've been playing around with a few character concepts, as I've found myself in a rut with my current character. One idea was pitched to me by a friend, and that was a Doman Miqo'te. While I personally believe it's possible, as not all Miqo'te ended up in Eorzea after they left Meracydia, and some probably ended up on Othard and therefore Doma. However, other races might have ended up there, and most likely in many other places. What do you think of non-Eorzean characters?
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Sounsyy - 02-16-2017
(02-16-2017, 10:33 PM)Mika Wrote: I've been playing around with a few character concepts, as I've found myself in a rut with my current character. One idea was pitched to me by a friend, and that was a Doman Miqo'te. While I personally believe it's possible, as not all Miqo'te ended up in Eorzea after they left Meracydia, and some probably ended up on Othard and therefore Doma. However, other races might have ended up there, and most likely in many other places. What do you think of non-Eorzean characters?
While the Meracydian origin is still under some contention sadly, you're right in that it's entirely possible and even likely that additional Miqo'te tribes migrated to places other than Eorzea around the same time period or later. We can solidly place Miqo'te in the Near East and Ilsabard and Meracydia - all of which have had trade with Limsa and all of which have trade with the Far East. There's even a Miqo'te trader hawking Far Eastern goods. Additionally, the Garleans have occupied Othard for over 25 years, and having conscripts of all races among their number, it's hard to say which Eorzean races couldn't be living beyond Eorzea's borders.
S'gnayak Wrote:Greetings, my lady. I bring exotic goods from lands far to the east.
Moving beyond speculation though, we do have solid lore placing the following races in Othard: Hyur (Midlander and Highlander models), Lalafell (Plainsfolk model), and Au Ra (three clans). I say "models" specifically because the clans we're familiar with are Eorzean-centric clans and while an Eorzean might identify a Far Eastern Highlander as a Highlander, he may be of a different clan, according to designations within the lore book.
Using the races we know of, we can actually do some minor racial distribution between the Othardian city-states.
Doma: Midlander Hyur, Plainsfolk Lalafell, Raen Au Ra
Hingashi: Midlander Hyur, Plainsfolk Lalafell, Raen Au Ra, Haragin Xaela Au Ra
Bozja: Hyur, Lalafell, Xaela Au Ra
Rabanastre: Highlander Hyur, (Dunesfolk?) Lalafell, Xaela Au Ra
If there are Miqo'te in Othard, the largest concentration would've likely been in Hingashi (as it has trade with the Near East) and Bozja (Othard's largest trade hub before it was destroyed), but it's not possible to say with any more certainty yet.
Hope this helps! ^^
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Mika - 02-16-2017
(02-16-2017, 11:13 PM)Sounsyy Wrote:It does, thank you! I do have another question. If my theoretical Miqo'te hailed from Doma specifically, they would most likely adhere to their naming conventions. Would that be correct? My knowledge of naming conventions is fuzzy at best.(02-16-2017, 10:33 PM)Mika Wrote: I've been playing around with a few character concepts, as I've found myself in a rut with my current character. One idea was pitched to me by a friend, and that was a Doman Miqo'te. While I personally believe it's possible, as not all Miqo'te ended up in Eorzea after they left Meracydia, and some probably ended up on Othard and therefore Doma. However, other races might have ended up there, and most likely in many other places. What do you think of non-Eorzean characters?
While the Meracydian origin is still under some contention sadly, you're right in that it's entirely possible and even likely that additional Miqo'te tribes migrated to places other than Eorzea around the same time period or later. We can solidly place Miqo'te in the Near East and Ilsabard and Meracydia - all of which have had trade with Limsa and all of which have trade with the Far East. There's even a Miqo'te trader hawking Far Eastern goods. Additionally, the Garleans have occupied Othard for over 25 years, and having conscripts of all races among their number, it's hard to say which Eorzean races couldn't be living beyond Eorzea's borders.
S'gnayak Wrote:Greetings, my lady. I bring exotic goods from lands far to the east.
Moving beyond speculation though, we do have solid lore placing the following races in Othard: Hyur (Midlander and Highlander models), Lalafell (Plainsfolk model), and Au Ra (three clans). I say "models" specifically because the clans we're familiar with are Eorzean-centric clans and while an Eorzean might identify a Far Eastern Highlander as a Highlander, he may be of a different clan, according to designations within the lore book.
Using the races we know of, we can actually do some minor racial distribution between the Othardian city-states.
Doma: Midlander Hyur, Plainsfolk Lalafell, Raen Au Ra
Hingashi: Midlander Hyur, Plainsfolk Lalafell, Raen Au Ra, Haragin Xaela Au Ra
Bozja: Hyur, Lalafell, Xaela Au Ra
Rabanastre: Highlander Hyur, (Dunesfolk?) Lalafell, Xaela Au Ra
If there are Miqo'te in Othard, the largest concentration would've likely been in Hingashi (as it has trade with the Near East) and Bozja (Othard's largest trade hub before it was destroyed), but it's not possible to say with any more certainty yet.
Hope this helps! ^^
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Valence - 02-17-2017
(02-16-2017, 11:13 PM)Sounsyy Wrote: Using the races we know of, we can actually do some minor racial distribution between the Othardian city-states.
Doma: Midlander Hyur, Plainsfolk Lalafell, Raen Au Ra
Hingashi: Midlander Hyur, Plainsfolk Lalafell, Raen Au Ra, Haragin Xaela Au Ra
Bozja: Hyur, Lalafell, Xaela Au Ra
Rabanastre: Highlander Hyur, (Dunesfolk?) Lalafell, Xaela Au Ra
That would mean that a lot of xaela are actually like miqo'te and left their tribal nomadic ways for a city life to live like Raen but in different cities?
Or do you just mean they just live in the vicinity of those cities?
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Nebbs - 02-17-2017
Regarding the "rut"Â
What I would add is to not focus too much on the technicalities at once and sort of evolve a character. This is just one way to create a character you can get into rather than a concept you can play.
What comes first lore or character? - It does not really matter so long as you have an idea. It sounds like you are going down the lore start first.
The important next bit is to consider what sort of stories would fit against that concept. This adds some dimensions to the character and as a result will then push you to check lore wise if they work.
Go around that a few times and you will likely see some personality developing, hold onto this.Â
After some time you end up with a character, that has a personality and a story(s). That should be enough to allow you to get into character and play this and develop rich interactions. This is the point to write a wiki I would say. Just to add though that in my experience it is only when you start to RP that things actually gel together.
With just RPing a concept it tends to limit your RP to just that and can seem one dimensional and put you back in a rut. This is evident on people who play "the refugee", or "the blind girl", or "angry DK", or ... lots more.
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Sounsyy - 02-17-2017
(02-16-2017, 11:34 PM)Mika Wrote: If my theoretical Miqo'te hailed from Doma specifically, they would most likely adhere to their naming conventions. Would that be correct? My knowledge of naming conventions is fuzzy at best.
From what we've seen, most likely yes. A great example is Yamimi Farwalker, a Plainsfolk Lalafell who hails from the Yanxia region of Othard, who follows Plainsfolk naming conventions for her forename and Doman (Raen Au Ra) naming conventions for her surname/epithet. A Doman Miqo'te would likely follow similar conventions, maintaining a Miqo'te forename (without the tribal letter) and a Doman "surname."
If you want more lore on Doma and its recent history, I recommend reading this compilation.
______________________________
(02-17-2017, 04:18 AM)Valence Wrote: Or do you just mean they just live in the vicinity of those cities?
I mean that given the tribe's proximity and the nature of those city-states that contact and some integration would be inevitable despite the Xaela's nomadic tendencies and the other races' general dislike of the Xaela.
The Haragin Xaela, for example are seafarers of Othard's eastern coastline and islands in the Ruby Tide. Hingashi is a city-state of seafarers and fisherfolk in the Ruby Tide. Interaction between the two is inevitable, but whether that interaction is peaceful trade or outright hostility is unknown.
Bozja, before it was obliterated by Midas nan Garlond, was Othard's largest commercial hub. If you're a large commercial hub for an isolated continent who trades between all of Othard's city-states and the Near East where is the most likely location if Othard's only shoreline is occupied? The One River. This massive waterway runs the entire length of the continent and borders every Othardian geographical region, but it lies in the heart of Xaela territories. Xaela lore says that usually the only time the Xaela tribes interact is when they cross each other to trade. Bozja was likely one of those common trading locations.
Rabanastre is located either in the southern deserts or in the northern mountains. While the Xaela tribes in these regions are fewer and more independent, it's still likely the city-state dealt occasionally with these tribes, even if it didn't boast a substantial number of permanent Xaela citizens.
All those outcast Xaela tribesmen or those from decimated clans had to go somewhere as well. Perhaps they became city Xaela.
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Flynn Rosenberg - 02-17-2017
(02-17-2017, 08:57 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:(02-16-2017, 11:34 PM)Mika Wrote: If my theoretical Miqo'te hailed from Doma specifically, they would most likely adhere to their naming conventions. Would that be correct? My knowledge of naming conventions is fuzzy at best.
From what we've seen, Â most likely yes. A great example is Yamimi Farwalker, a Plainsfolk Lalafell who hails from the Yanxia region of Othard, who follows Plainsfolk naming conventions for her forename and Doman (Raen Au Ra) naming conventions for her surname/epithet. A Doman Miqo'te would likely follow similar conventions, Â maintaining a Miqo'te forename (without the tribal letter) and a Doman "surname."
If you want more lore on Doma and its recent history, I recommend reading this compilation.
I really love this example and I wish people used it more, too many full-Japanese/Doman names on non-Doman race players, it's kinda weird seeing.
*votes to have example pinned in a lore section, unless it already is*
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Gegenji - 02-17-2017
(02-17-2017, 10:25 AM)Flynn Rosenberg Wrote:(02-17-2017, 08:57 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:(02-16-2017, 11:34 PM)Mika Wrote: If my theoretical Miqo'te hailed from Doma specifically, they would most likely adhere to their naming conventions. Would that be correct? My knowledge of naming conventions is fuzzy at best.
From what we've seen, Â most likely yes. A great example is Yamimi Farwalker, a Plainsfolk Lalafell who hails from the Yanxia region of Othard, who follows Plainsfolk naming conventions for her forename and Doman (Raen Au Ra) naming conventions for her surname/epithet. A Doman Miqo'te would likely follow similar conventions, Â maintaining a Miqo'te forename (without the tribal letter) and a Doman "surname."
If you want more lore on Doma and its recent history, I recommend reading this compilation.
I really love this example and I wish people used it more, too many full-Japanese/Doman names on non-Doman race players, it's kinda weird seeing.
*votes to have example pinned in a lore section, unless it already is*
... Now I wonder if I should've actually had a Doman last name for the Gegenjis instead of... well... Gegenji. At least I put some reasoning behind it - since it's the name of the very first of the line. Gegenji... LastNameNotProvided. I suppose he could be Gegenji Steelbender or something to fit with this and then I can totally say the lore is being maintained.
Which I suppose brings up a point. Your name can really be just about anything as long as you can explain it away. Adopted by a family of a different race, it just being a nickname or title you've taken on. That sort of thing.
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Valence - 02-17-2017
(02-17-2017, 08:57 AM)Sounsyy Wrote:(02-16-2017, 11:34 PM)Mika Wrote: If my theoretical Miqo'te hailed from Doma specifically, they would most likely adhere to their naming conventions. Would that be correct? My knowledge of naming conventions is fuzzy at best.
From what we've seen, most likely yes. A great example is Yamimi Farwalker, a Plainsfolk Lalafell who hails from the Yanxia region of Othard, who follows Plainsfolk naming conventions for her forename and Doman (Raen Au Ra) naming conventions for her surname/epithet. A Doman Miqo'te would likely follow similar conventions, maintaining a Miqo'te forename (without the tribal letter) and a Doman "surname."
Are you sure it's her last name and not one of those nicknames/aliases they give to NPC like Karasu Redbeak?
Maybe I missed something but so far I have only seen Doman with first and last name in japanese form, like in the naming convention... but it's possible I missed something.
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Jana - 02-17-2017
I don't think the epithets we see in-game are the same as surnames; we've seen the surnames of some NIN questline NPCs in the lore book and they didn't seem related to the titles they use during quest duties at all.
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Valence - 02-17-2017
That's why I'm asking.. They definitely are nicknames ingame, not surnames.
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Flynn Rosenberg - 02-17-2017
Can confirm even the lorebook has real names for the NIN questline NPCs, they are definitely titles/nicknames as their surnames.
Which kinda goes back to square one. For all we know, it's only Doman Hyur/Auri who follow the naming convention over there, while the other races stick to their own. Or the other races aren't there at all. *shrug*
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Mika - 02-17-2017
(02-17-2017, 04:54 AM)Nebbs Wrote: Regarding the "rut"ÂSee, that's the thing. I try my best not to make those kinds of "concept" characters, but I wrote one of my characters into a corner, and I'm not usually one to retcon. I do understand where you're coming from, but overall I think it's time for a new main character. I do plan on keeping them as an alt, but I think it's better overall to change things up.
What I would add is to not focus too much on the technicalities at once and sort of evolve a character. This is just one way to create a character you can get into rather than a concept you can play.
What comes first lore or character? - It does not really matter so long as you have an idea. It sounds like you are going down the lore start first.
The important next bit is to consider what sort of stories would fit against that concept. This adds some dimensions to the character and as a result will then push you to check lore wise if they work.
Go around that a few times and you will likely see some personality developing, hold onto this.Â
After some time you end up with a character, that has a personality and a story(s). That should be enough to allow you to get into character and play this and develop rich interactions. This is the point to write a wiki I would say. Just to add though that in my experience it is only when you start to RP that things actually gel together.
With just RPing a concept it tends to limit your RP to just that and can seem one dimensional and put you back in a rut. This is evident on people who play "the refugee", or "the blind girl", or "angry DK", or ... lots more.
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Sounsyy - 02-17-2017
(02-17-2017, 04:43 PM)Valence Wrote:(02-17-2017, 08:57 AM)Sounsyy Wrote: From what we've seen, most likely yes. A great example is Yamimi Farwalker, a Plainsfolk Lalafell who hails from the Yanxia region of Othard, who follows Plainsfolk naming conventions for her forename and Doman (Raen Au Ra) naming conventions for her surname/epithet. A Doman Miqo'te would likely follow similar conventions, maintaining a Miqo'te forename (without the tribal letter) and a Doman "surname."
Are you sure it's her last name and not one of those nicknames/aliases they give to NPC like Karasu Redbeak?
I did write "surname/epithet" and "'surname'" in quotations in my post you quoted? Since most Domans do not actually have a real surname, they have made-up epithets usually reminiscent of their profession. These surname/epithets (because they are kind of both at the same time but also not truly either) can be in the Doman language or in the Eorzea tongue.
Karasu Kanshi versus Karasu Redbeak
"Kanshi" can mean either poetry or observation in English, a fitting name for Karasu as he's verbose and poetic, but he's also an observer, a spy, a shinobi. He earned the epithet "Redbeak" for the blood of his slain countrymen.
Oboro Wrote:Karasu Redbeak. In the name of our elders, I take your life as divine retribution for your crimes. Your bloodstained beak will feast on the innocent no more.
Doman Naming Conventions Wrote:Unlike their Auri ancestors who employed clan names as surnames, the now-clanless Raen have adopted a more complex practice. Families of the warrior class (and generally the ruling class) are the only people “allowed†surnames in Doma, and they will often take surnames that displayed their battle prowess or position within an army. Though the names are not recognized by the ruling class, families of the merchant and peasant classes will still give themselves surnames as to make their everyday lives easier─the names reflecting their professions.
Yamimi Farwalker is undoubtedly using an epithet just as much as Yugiri Mistwalker is, but Yamimi's also a part of the merchant class and wouldn't have a true surname or clan name, not that Plainsfolk Lalafell have true surnames to begin with, which is another pointer to her not being Eorzean.
Lalafell Naming Conventions Wrote:Surnames are only surnames in placement, as they are not taken from the mother or father and are unique to the individual.
Yamimi Farwalker Wrote:My customer thought the world of him. 'Tis for the boy's sake I wrote the good master and made the long journey to Limsa Lominsa. In the last moon of his life, the boy asked me about the Far East.
Why is her epithet not Eorzean? Because Eorzean Plainsfolk Lalafell always say out their full name. Even when Alka Zolka goes by an epithet in game, the epithet goes afterwards: Alka Zolka the Thinker. The only exception to this rule I could find, besides Yamimi, is Luzlo "Lowthrust" Pulazlo, and even then, he is still called Luzlo Pulazlo and only the commonfolk call him by his gladiator epithet.
Lalafell Naming Conventions Wrote:Fun Fact: In everyday speech, Plainsfolk males will usually always use their full names, rarely ever breaking them down into solely first or last.
DAT Help Text Wrote:Plainsfolk males─notable Syndicate member Teledji Adeledji included─usually go by their entire full name, rather than first or last name alone.
Galeren Wrote:If pushed, I'd have to say Luzlo Pulazlo is the gladiator of the moment. Luzlo Lowthrust, the commonfolk call him.
Now is Yamimi somehow special because she's a female Plainsfolk? I couldn't say for sure, but I can say that she is from the Far East and uses epithets in place of surnames in a manner most similar to Doman immigrants.
RE: Races outside of Eorzea - Valence - 02-18-2017
Well if we are going to use the historical Edo conventions then it would mean that Karasu, Oboro and so on are actually nobility (equivalent to RL samurai) since they also have proper last names? That's interesting.
We know that Yuki Yatsurugi is indeed a princess (of a small village they say? That's probably minor nobility then, something akin to jizamurai?). So would it be the same for Oboro and all?
All in all, that would mean that in doman naming conventions you would also have to take into consideration the social place of your character, and if they are indeed part of the noble caste or not.
So, in a nutshell, if your character is a commoner, you get their first name and a possible epiteth (which isn't even a Doman thing anyway, since eorzeans use them too). If your character is a noble then they get a first name, a last name, and a possible epiteth (will they make the nobility actual samurai, like the job? That might be confusing, but we have seen how it went with all types of dragoons anyway).