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+--- Thread: 3.3 & 3.4 Housing Updates (/showthread.php?tid=16114)
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - Kellach Woods - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 03:27 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: It's not the Square Defense Force insisting everything is fine. It's people pointing out that this is SE doing what SE does: Shitting things up and then needing to work extra hard to find a fix to a problem they should have anticipated.
I can't think of a single MMO that doesn't have to do that constantly, and it's more on the producers/leads than the programmers themselves.
Also, speaking of the Armory Chest - if the next expansion or next patch cycle adds 2 jobs or more, it will be impossible to carry a single weapon for all the classes.
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - C'kayah Polaali - 05-17-2016
(05-17-2016, 04:56 PM)Warren Castille Wrote: I tried typing up a reply like five times but I kept banging my head on the fact that I don't actually know anything about programming so I can't come to any conclusions.
* Warren Castille makes sad trombone noises.
I've written two small MMOs, so I like to think I understand the issues better than most. I get that poor choices lead to technical debt which limits options, but most of the work to do proper housing has been done. The houses are there. The maps are there. The wards (read: instances) are there, and available. The only thing they'd have to do to resolve this situation is increase the number of wards to suit the demand. Like I said before, it's not rocket science.
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - McBeefâ„¢ - 05-17-2016
blegh nevermind.
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - Valence - 05-18-2016
I think you people are just speculating a brassing a lot of hot air, without any offense intended.Â
You just don't know what's going on behind, you don't have the code to look at, you don't know their constraints, you don't know their producing directives either...
Honestly at this point, it could be anything, be it technical or just a mangement thing.
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - Lydia Lightfoot - 05-18-2016
(05-18-2016, 03:58 AM)Valence Wrote: I think you people are just speculating a brassing a lot of hot air, without any offense intended.Â
You just don't know what's going on behind, you don't have the code to look at, you don't know their constraints, you don't know their producing directives either...
Honestly at this point, it could be anything, be it technical or just a mangement thing.
Or maybe... I mean if you really think about it...
![[Image: 30936.jpg]](http://images.memes.com/meme/tile/30936.jpg)
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - Warren Castille - 05-18-2016
This is going to sound a lot more heated than I intend it to, but here goes:
Anytime I see someone say "All they have to do is..." I wonder why they're not working for the company involved. We've seen this for new companions, for new skills, for job balancing, for inventory, for egi skins, for mechanics, for raids, for dungeons, for flying mounts...
Businesses exist to make money. It makes zero sense for a company wanting money to intentionally sandbag and lose potential revenue. It has to be a "can't" instead of a "won't."
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - Unnamed Mercenary - 05-18-2016
(05-16-2016, 06:29 PM)Setoh Aliapoh Wrote:(05-16-2016, 05:55 PM)McBeef© Wrote:(05-16-2016, 05:41 PM)Setoh Aliapoh Wrote:Because they're not immobile.(05-16-2016, 04:58 PM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: You know player position is polled every 100-300 milliseconds, right? That has to be sent to the server and broadcasted to the entire zone. For every player. When there's a server issue, it's usually bandwidth-related or something done to prevent a bandwidth issue. The whole reason instances are well, fast and instanced is for that exact purpose.
Why should the player position code, which has to deal with mobile players moving around an area, have anything to do with the code that sends out information on the immobile things in an area?
Any player can move them at any time, and collision boxes need to be updated immediately for all players.
*eyeroll*
Transmitting only a delta of changed data is computer science 101.
I am really amused at the SE apologists, though. I mean, I'm sure they're doing the best they can. Gold star for the housing. Don't change a thing.
Look at the private server projects for the older games if you don't believe me. This game doesn't deal with deltas. That's how you end up with bots doing teleport hacks left and right with no error checking. It's not as bad in 2.0, but in 1.0, literally everything you saw the client do had to be processed on the server. NPC text, NPC items to sell. Even a large portion of the game menus needed a packet from the server to tell them what to do. 2.0+ likely isn't that different. It's a not a great design, but it's extremely likely that's what they kept doing.
The housing system could use a lot of improvements, but the changes you want or the games you're comparing it to would require throwing it out and redoing the entire thing. And that's not going to happen. Though I think the apartment system being introduced is probably an attempt at just that. It'll likely be completely instanced, if I have to guess, like a massive network of player rooms, but bigger.
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - Warren Castille - 05-18-2016
(05-18-2016, 08:21 AM)Unnamed Mercenary Wrote: It's not as bad in 2.0, but in 1.0, literally everything you saw the client do had to be processed on the server. NPC text, NPC items to sell. Even a large portion of the game menus needed a packet from the server to tell them what to do.
I remember feeling really clever when I made a gear change macro to change from RP clothes to my PVE armor.
I felt substantially less clever when it took about 40 seconds to execute because of how clunky the 1.0 engine was.
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - Valence - 05-18-2016
I just hope that those apartments will not just be The Roost / The Hourglass / The Mizzenmast / The Forgotten Knight redux 2.0.
We will be able to do at least as many things in them as you can in your private room, right? Meaning, furnishing, inviting friends over, etc?
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - Unnamed Mercenary - 05-18-2016
(05-18-2016, 11:30 AM)Valence Wrote: I just hope that those apartments will not just be The Roost / The Hourglass / The Mizzenmast / The Forgotten Knight redux 2.0.
We will be able to do at least as many things in them as you can in your private room, right? Meaning, furnishing, inviting friends over, etc?
I think we're supposed to get most of the benefits, like customizing the room and I believe even gardening was planned.
I can't remember if inviting people was included, but I want to say yes. No idea on chocobos.
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - Lydia Lightfoot - 05-18-2016
(05-18-2016, 08:12 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: This is going to sound a lot more heated than I intend it to, but here goes:
Anytime I see someone say "All they have to do is..." I wonder why they're not working for the company involved. We've seen this for new companions, for new skills, for job balancing, for inventory, for egi skins, for mechanics, for raids, for dungeons, for flying mounts...
Businesses exist to make money. It makes zero sense for a company wanting money to intentionally sandbag and lose potential revenue. It has to be a "can't" instead of a "won't."
Yeah, I get you. It's an awkward thing with business though - how do you hire someone "who has good ideas"? That's not really a qualification which has a metric behind it. Instead, they hire people who have degrees, with the hope that somebody who has that degree will also happen to have pretty good ideas. Maybe they do, maybe they don't.
It's like that classic "Things I'd do as a supervillain" thing, where one of the little blurbs is "I would keep a toddler in my employ, and run all of my schemes past him. If he can find a problem with it, I'll revise the scheme." Sometimes the idea which seems really obvious to one person might go totally under the radar of a thousand other people.
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - Valence - 05-18-2016
I'll probably be a bit blunt so forgive me in advance... As someone that actually work in the industry - but I do believe it's true for almost every other business - anyone that shows up with "good ideas" without any experience of how it actually works inside, that would probably make my day.
It's a bit like someone being an amateur (and good) mechanic showing up at a car manufacturer and saying "Hire me, I'll revolutionize all your issues because the solution is obvious to me".
Well, we often get those by shitloads. Interns that think they know it all. They sure have the theorical knowledge, but they know jack shit how it actually works inside, how are the processes, and what the actual software is and its limitations. Or even professionals that come from other fields of computing. Someone showing up with a flower in the mouth like that and saying that... Well, you just facepalm most of the time.
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - S'imba - 05-18-2016
I agree people saying they got the answer to do things better, despite having zero experience in a field is an eye roll. Especially when the problem they see is a symptom of another problem. I mean an obvious solution that I see is probably only going to cause more problems elsewhere. Until I can see the whole picture and understand the entire organism of the issue then I probably won't come up with a proper solution.
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - Aaron - 05-18-2016
(05-18-2016, 08:12 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: This is going to sound a lot more heated than I intend it to, but here goes:It's why I don't ever really add my opinion on the matter.
Anytime I see someone say "All they have to do is..." I wonder why they're not working for the company involved. We've seen this for new companions, for new skills, for job balancing, for inventory, for egi skins, for mechanics, for raids, for dungeons, for flying mounts...
Businesses exist to make money. It makes zero sense for a company wanting money to intentionally sandbag and lose potential revenue. It has to be a "can't" instead of a "won't."
Sure I'll bitch about the odd stuff like dying weapons or whatever but you'll never hear me say "All they gotta do."Â
Talking about this makes me wish I finished my gaming and design classes. I'd probably be working at Ubisoft in the next five years :/.
RE: 3.3 Housing Updates - Lydia Lightfoot - 05-18-2016
At the same time, though, if every time someone had an idea for how to change an issue, that person heeded the ones who said "You're new and don't know the limitation of the system, so we're going to facepalm you"... how many great advances in technology would we be missing?Â
Just an example, prior to railroads we didn't have any reason to develop the techniques needed to make tunnels through a mountain or leveled routes along the side of a slope. People transported goods using wagons, and there were simply certain places wagons could go and couldn't go. A lot of people probably said, "There's no way your fancy railroad thing will work, because the system isn't designed to be able to do that, there's mountains and rivers, we'd have to use the same routes the wagons all use, and then the wagons couldn't use them because wagon wheels don't go over train tracks very well."
If the system doesn't meet the needs of emerging ideas, then the system can be changed. Even a computer system. The computer only does the things we tell it to do, after all - any limits it has aside from hardware (which can be upgraded) exist because we programmed those limits.
EDIT: Anyway, this is getting off topic. I realized that after I posted this, but per forum rules I'm not going to delete it... just perhaps ask that nobody else reply to it? <<