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+--- Thread: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? (/showthread.php?tid=13361)
If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - LadyRochester - 09-11-2015
Mind you, this applies both to "Ugly" and "Beautiful" characters.
I start this thread because a lot of people, instead of describing their character's feaures to an extent, simply go: "Sasha Rochester is very beautiful."
Isn't beauty subjective?
What if you find Sasha Rochester ugly? Should your character pretend she's drop-dead gorgeous because it says on her RPC wiki "She's beautiful."?
Same thing applies to ugly characters. If I'm a roleplayer and don't really describe my character's physical appearance, and then just go "Oh, he's ugly."
Is he? What if I like the way he looks? Even better, what if you describe your character as "Morbidly obese, hairy, with a lazy eye, and a balding head with green hair", and it just so happens I find those features beautiful? Wouldn't that throw the "My character is ugly" argument out the window?
In essence, is the beauty of the character truly judged by the player themselves or the audience? If someone makes a character everyone considers ugly, except themselves, should they really lazily describe themselves as "beautiful"? Should they get upset when other characters don't act with praise towards their appearance?
Keep the discussion respectful and with no personal insults.
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - Warren Castille - 09-11-2015
All traits that are stated instead of displayed or interpreted are suspect. I personally tend to avoid that sort of thing because I'm awful at description. No NPC in any of my threads gets a comment besides race and hair color, and sometimes only the first one.
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - LadyRochester - 09-11-2015
(09-11-2015, 08:31 AM)Warren Castille Wrote: All traits that are stated instead of displayed or interpreted are suspect. I personally tend to avoid that sort of thing because I'm awful at description. No NPC in any of my threads gets a comment besides race and hair color, and sometimes only the first one.
I usually stick to my character's appearance in-game. Even in my RPC wiki, I'm pretty much describing the in-game model. Only difference is perhaps the body. I don't describe her as beautiful though, to me, that's up to others. This might be lazy, but it makes it easier for others.
I have roleplayed "ugly" characters before where I had to extensively describe their commonly "unattractive" features. If people at one point actually found those features attractive, well, it was up to them. I didn't explicitly say they were ugly (Unless I was expressing my opinion OOC), as I was under the assumption most people would consider those features unattractive anyway.
I'm not necessarily bothered by people with "lazy" descriptions, more people who just simply put their characters under the "ugly/beautiful" category without giving any clues when there are too many variables to take into account.
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - Sylentmana - 09-11-2015
Perhaps a way around this would be to state something like "This character is considered to be ugly/beautiful by many people." This way, it implies that while others my think the character to be one thing, your character is free to have their own opinion based on their own tastes.
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - LadyRochester - 09-11-2015
(09-11-2015, 08:43 AM)Sylentmana Wrote: Perhaps a way around this would be to state something like "This character is considered to be ugly/beautiful by many people." This way, it implies that while others my think the character to be one thing, your character is free to have their own opinion based on their own tastes.
This is simply a rhetorical question!
What if you say that, but most of the role players they surround themselves with disagree? What if I describe my character as "repulsive" and then describe her as having flawless skin, bright blue eyes, plump lips, a symmetrical face, high cheekbones, with silky, long hair, etc. You know, "classically" attractive things... And then most of the audience sees them as beautiful instead?
Could that statement still be supported, even when ICly it has been disproved?
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - mongi291 - 09-11-2015
Isaulde should be a very boyish-looking Elezen and not attractive at all, but the best I could do is making her flat as a man. I wish I could've at least edited the muscle tone, but nope, we can't on certain race/gender combinations. Goddamnit SE.
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - Sylentmana - 09-11-2015
(09-11-2015, 08:48 AM)LadyRochester Wrote:(09-11-2015, 08:43 AM)Sylentmana Wrote: Perhaps a way around this would be to state something like "This character is considered to be ugly/beautiful by many people." This way, it implies that while others my think the character to be one thing, your character is free to have their own opinion based on their own tastes.
This is simply a rhetorical question!
What if you say that, but most of the role players they surround themselves with disagree? What if I describe my character as "repulsive" and then describe her as having flawless skin, bright blue eyes, plump lips, a symmetrical face, high cheekbones, with silky, long hair, etc. You know, "classically" attractive things... And then most of the audience sees them as beautiful instead?
Could that statement still be supported, even when ICly it has been disproved?
If its a rhetorical question, then you do not require an answer which defeats the purpose of asking for a discussion.
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - LadyRochester - 09-11-2015
(09-11-2015, 08:51 AM)mongi291 Wrote: Isaulde should be a very boyish-looking Elezen and not attractive at all, but the best I could do is making her flat as a man. I wish I could've at least edited the muscle tone, but nope, we can't on certain race/gender combinations. Goddamnit SE.
In that case, wouldn't you simply describe her as boyish-looking with harsh, masculine features and a strong build? Instead of simply saying "Oh, she's unattractive."
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - LadyRochester - 09-11-2015
(09-11-2015, 08:54 AM)Sylentmana Wrote:(09-11-2015, 08:48 AM)LadyRochester Wrote:(09-11-2015, 08:43 AM)Sylentmana Wrote: Perhaps a way around this would be to state something like "This character is considered to be ugly/beautiful by many people." This way, it implies that while others my think the character to be one thing, your character is free to have their own opinion based on their own tastes.
This is simply a rhetorical question!
What if you say that, but most of the role players they surround themselves with disagree? What if I describe my character as "repulsive" and then describe her as having flawless skin, bright blue eyes, plump lips, a symmetrical face, high cheekbones, with silky, long hair, etc. You know, "classically" attractive things... And then most of the audience sees them as beautiful instead?
Could that statement still be supported, even when ICly it has been disproved?
If its a rhetorical question, then you do not require an answer which defeats the purpose of asking for a discussion.
I suppose it was more of a statement to defend my position, but take back the rhetorical part, what then?
What if you say that, but most of the role players they surround themselves with disagree? What if I describe my character as "repulsive" and then describe her as having flawless skin, bright blue eyes, plump lips, a symmetrical face, high cheekbones, with silky, long hair, etc. You know, "classically" attractive things... And then most of the audience sees them as beautiful instead?
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - Gegenji - 09-11-2015
(09-11-2015, 08:48 AM)LadyRochester Wrote: What if you say that, but most of the role players they surround themselves with disagree? What if I describe my character as "repulsive" and then describe her as having flawless skin, bright blue eyes, plump lips, a symmetrical face, high cheekbones, with silky, long hair, etc. You know, "classically" attractive things... And then most of the audience sees them as beautiful instead?
If they're aware such things are classically attractive and still describe her as repulsive, I could see it being one of a few things.
- Personal opinion on beauty - they may be "classically" attractive traits, but for that person they don't seem as such and, thus, they don't even think that it's the case. Could either lead to confusion when people find them attractive, or statements that it's "not pretty to them."
- Character is actively marring their appearance, either intentionally or unintentionally. Maybe they would look nice if they treated themselves well or presented themselves properly. Instead they wear too much makeup or their hair is a mess - a sort of a "diamond in the rough" approach.
- They aren't talking about "repulsive" in terms of appearance. The most beautiful person in the world can still have a horrifically nasty attitude. Maybe it was just phrased wrong and while she's very pretty, most people don't want to be around her because of how she acts.
Then again, I suppose I'm a bit hypocritical in that regard. I say Gogon is supposed to be smart and Judge is supposed to be strong. I do try to do more showing than telling, though, which I can only hope helps some. Maybe avoiding absolutes is just the safest way to go.
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - Berrod Armstrong - 09-11-2015
When I see a character described as 'beautiful' or 'ugly', I tend to assume it's referring to the 'general standard of beauty' that tends to be prevalent in any society. I then compare that to my character's own tastes and decide how their 'beauty' or 'ugliness' will be received.Â
'Show, don't tell' is all good and fine, but for some things, subjective or no, there tends to be a 'world standard' that we can use as a gauge along with our character's preferences.
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - Sylentmana - 09-11-2015
(09-11-2015, 08:57 AM)LadyRochester Wrote:(09-11-2015, 08:54 AM)Sylentmana Wrote:(09-11-2015, 08:48 AM)LadyRochester Wrote:(09-11-2015, 08:43 AM)Sylentmana Wrote: Perhaps a way around this would be to state something like "This character is considered to be ugly/beautiful by many people." This way, it implies that while others my think the character to be one thing, your character is free to have their own opinion based on their own tastes.
This is simply a rhetorical question!
What if you say that, but most of the role players they surround themselves with disagree? What if I describe my character as "repulsive" and then describe her as having flawless skin, bright blue eyes, plump lips, a symmetrical face, high cheekbones, with silky, long hair, etc. You know, "classically" attractive things... And then most of the audience sees them as beautiful instead?
Could that statement still be supported, even when ICly it has been disproved?
If its a rhetorical question, then you do not require an answer which defeats the purpose of asking for a discussion.
I suppose it was more of a statement to defend my position, but take back the rhetorical part, what then?
What if you say that, but most of the role players they surround themselves with disagree? What if I describe my character as "repulsive" and then describe her as having flawless skin, bright blue eyes, plump lips, a symmetrical face, high cheekbones, with silky, long hair, etc. You know, "classically" attractive things... And then most of the audience sees them as beautiful instead?
Then people might assume you are not very good at creating a character as your description of her does not match the statement of her being "ugly."
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - LadyRochester - 09-11-2015
(09-11-2015, 09:04 AM)Berrod Armstrong Wrote: When I see a character described as 'beautiful' or 'ugly', I tend to assume it's referring to the 'general standard of beauty' that tends to be prevalent in any society. I then compare that to my character's own tastes and decide how their 'beauty' or 'ugliness' will be received.Â
'Show, don't tell' is all good and fine, but for some things, subjective or no, there tends to be a 'world standard' that we can use as a gauge along with our character's preferences.
Fair enough. Â
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - WhiteLycanXII - 09-11-2015
I just keep my char's physical description objective. c:
RE: If beauty is subjective, who defines the beauty of your character? - LadyRochester - 09-11-2015
(09-11-2015, 09:07 AM)Sylentmana Wrote: Then people might assume you are not very good at creating a character as your description of her does not match the statement of her being "ugly."
Well, to you. However, would you roleplay your character as finding them unattractive or not? Even if she is described as having those features, but also described as being "ugly". Would you make your character follow your/their beauty standards or the other roleplayer's?