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+--- Thread: Creating a Dragoon... (/showthread.php?tid=13219)
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Sylastair - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 04:46 PM)Ameline Wrote:Ameline for President 2020. No I agree, I don't think the lore supports much of this but that's also because interpretation plays a big part. I've never hid the fact I RP a Miqo DRG, and really love it(08-31-2015, 04:30 PM)Flynt Knoltros Wrote:(08-31-2015, 02:10 PM)Oli! Wrote:Speaking to your Spoiler:(08-31-2015, 02:03 PM)Ashe Wrote: Also....non-Elezen Dragoons are rare. Hyurs are possible. But don't go making any Au Ra Dragoons or Miqo'te Dragoons without a bit of backlash. You also have to be trained by a regular dragoon and you have to be recognized by the Holy See and for a city known for just straight up killing Au Ra on sight in the past, you won't be met with open arms as one now still probably...
Also, there is only one Azure Dragoon. So don't be that haha.Â
Everyone else has got it down.
....
You CAN be a non-Elezen/Hyur Non-Ishgardian Dragoon I GUESS.......but like....Don't do it if you're not willing to be questioned about it ICly and OOCly >>
Have a Good Excuse is the game here.
Personally, I wouldn't do it, especially since:
but it's entirely possible to just be a Lancer, or maybe pay someone from Ishgard for training in everything except what's in the spoiler box. The game then becomes "why would they train YOU," however, so it's still risky business.
Miqo'te, pls.
Kidding ! I agree; just because I haven't seen a certain race or nationality be dragoon in the MSQ does not mean to me that it cannot be so unless explicitly explained otherwise . . Or at least that is how I see it. I feel like there are one million different reasons, methods, ways that this knowledge could have been imparted to non-locals or those of exotic race. Just my opinion - but if you have a concept that is not just. . . mental - GO FOR IT. You do not need to justify yourself to anyone else unless you want to : >
#MamaDahlmelSpreadsDRGLove
. I think it's a cool story, and honestly love the setting because it challenges me and the character in fun ways. I appreciate all the opinions in here and what was brought to the table. #JumpStab4Lyfe
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Ronin'ra - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 05:31 PM)Ashe Wrote: I play by the rule that if you haven't seen it in the MSQ or in the towns around you, it probably doesn't exist...There should be no miqo'te in Ishgard as Ishgardian citizens. Like...period. There are no non-outside people in Ishgard who are Miqo'te. At all.Â
The knowledge CAN be imparted but if you're a miqo'te or Au Ra you need the Holy See to recognize your achievements which, as an outsider, it's like 1) why would you ICly care and 2) why would the Holy See care.
You can have all the power and knowledge but if the people it matters to will most likely not recognize it then what's the point.
The whole non-Elezen/Hyur Dragoons thing IS mental in my opinion but people CAN go for it.Â
Ahhhh~ This is my favorite can of worms for a reason~Â
....Next to the WHM/BLM one. That's my second favorite can of worms.
Had to dig this out from a while ago, but, during 1.0 the NPC K'leytai was an Ishgardian Knight. Riversmeet, if I remember correctly.
![[Image: K%27leytai_%281.x%29.png]](http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/images/3/36/K%27leytai_%281.x%29.png)
http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/K'leytai
Her dialogue:
"Welcome to Camp Riversmeet. I am Gatewarden K'leytai.
Our men and women keep vigil over the outlying areas of the Wyrmking's Perch, The Lance, and Twinpools."
Take it as you will, but there has at least been one. Rare, no doubt. Hope that helps in some sort of decision you're making, OP.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Ashe - 08-31-2015
Ishgardian Knight and Dragoon aren't the same.Â
Knights maybe because you don't necessarily need to be high born for that. But dragoons are less likely...
That and 1.0 lore is so sketchy >.<
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Sylastair - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 07:51 PM)Ashe Wrote: Ishgardian Knight and Dragoon aren't the same.ÂIf I'm not mistaken Dragoon is just a title for killing a 'true' dragon. To me, being make a Knight for Ishgard is a far bigger deal for a non-Elezen than simply scoring a kill. Should a knight kill a 'true' dragon, they would then be a Dragoon by title, but how one learns to fight all jump/stab style is still up in the air.
Knights maybe because you don't necessarily need to be high born for that. But dragoons are less likely...
That and 1.0 lore is so sketchy >.<
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Ashe - 08-31-2015
They have completely different jobs. Temple Knights hunt heretics. Dragoons kill dragons. There are Knights who do not use lances.Â
I think they learn that through unlocking their dragon blood that is in their Ishgardian veins....meaning you have to be Ishgardian to be a Dragoon >.<
The Azure Dragoon with the eye grants the same power...hence why the WoL could learn those abilities.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - V'aleera - 08-31-2015
Glad to see someone else beat me to the punch on dispelling the "no non-Elezen/Hyur Ishgardians exist" myth. IIRC, there's also a Roe heretic held in captivity in Whitebrim. There's a longer and more abstract argument to be made here but I don't feel like writing that all out again at the moment.
Now onto the subject of certain special dragon powers. I believe it would be wise to note that the abilities high level dragoons are given, starting with Dragonfire Dive, never see canon use outside of an Azure Dragoon. It's entirely possible, and in my opinion most likely, that the greatest feat of strength achievable for a standard dragoon elite is the ability to jump in extraordinary fashions.
Given Ishgard's history and culture I simply find it extremely hard to believe that an entire wing of their military would openly use dragon magic derived from dragon blood.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Flashhelix - 08-31-2015
I do believe that
Honestly I feel like the stretches that some people take to make their character X class can be far-fetched at times. How many old dragoons are there? And out of those old dragoons, who would be open to actively training somebody who was not only an outsider, who p. much everybody in Ishgard with the exception of House Fortemps is distrustful of, but train an outsider in the sacred dragonslaying art that is so advanced you have to prove you can kill one without it to even be allowed to learn it?
THAT BEING SAID, I take a few liberties with dragoon powers myself, namely that my dragoon character can do things like the Geirskogul, mostly because the only one explicitly stated to only be possible by the Azure Dragoon is the Dragonfire Dive. In one of the DRG quests you even make up a brand new technique, the lore is too barren to assume much when it comes to the abilities themselves. If you can sell it, any concept is possible, but I feel like some people don't put enough effort into selling it.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Volk - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 08:00 PM)Flynt Knoltros Wrote:(08-31-2015, 07:51 PM)Ashe Wrote: Ishgardian Knight and Dragoon aren't the same.ÂIf I'm not mistaken Dragoon is just a title for killing a 'true' dragon. To me, being make a Knight for Ishgard is a far bigger deal for a non-Elezen than simply scoring a kill. Should a knight kill a 'true' dragon, they would then be a Dragoon by title, but how one learns to fight all jump/stab style is still up in the air.
Knights maybe because you don't necessarily need to be high born for that. But dragoons are less likely...
That and 1.0 lore is so sketchy >.<
As far as I have come to understand, being a knight has MUCH more to do with pedigree and bloodlines than dragoon. As a knight, I think the religious dogma angle is much more prevalent too. Exceptions are everywhere, but I know it would be difficult to have my character become a knight as a dirty brume girl than to become a fully sanctioned dragoon under tutelage of another or several of the order.
MSQ talks about how Aymeric had difficult time being a knight as a 'low-born' man in 2.5/2.55. To my recollection which is dodgy, I dont recall ever hearing things spoken about dragoons having higher-caste or social barriers to entry like knights. I would imagine many dragoons probably rise from army regulars as shining stars when they kill dragon or something. Idk, just what I think !
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Riven - 08-31-2015
Suddenly I'm quite confused...
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Seriphyn - 08-31-2015
Playing a race in a culture that they are not native to...
Although more seriously, in-game, Ishgard is primarily Elezen with Hyur. The Drachen-clad dragoons you see in a sidequest are all Elezen. So, essentially, if you want to go with authenticity, accuracy, and appearing like a natural product of that nation, you'd want to play either Elezen or Hyur. Anything else would be regarded as an exception, and just requires an explanation in the backstory.
Something that would be pushing my immersion (and you really shouldn't care about my immersion in particular) is it if it was Au Ra or something.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Martiallais - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 08:32 PM)Riven Wrote: Suddenly I'm quite confused...
Ask away! You're bound to get answers of one sort or another.
The best advice I can offer? Read what's been linked, and the opinions/thoughts posted here and keep in mind what you like as you play/RP.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - V'aleera - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 08:34 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: Playing a race in a culture that they are not native to...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke
I feel like we've had this discussion before.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Seriphyn - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 08:48 PM)V Wrote:(08-31-2015, 08:34 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: Playing a race in a culture that they are not native to...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke
I feel like we've had this discussion before.
One historical exception is not a rule, yo.
i.e. Just because there was one African dude in Japan at some point does not mean future Afro-Japanese dudes (in that time period at least) would not be regarded as strange.
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - Volk - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 08:34 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: Playing a race in a culture that they are not native to...
Although more seriously, in-game, Ishgard is primarily Elezen with Hyur. The Drachen-clad dragoons you see in a sidequest are all Elezen. So, essentially, if you want to go with authenticity, accuracy, and appearing like a natural product of that nation, you'd want to play either Elezen or Hyur. Anything else would be regarded as an exception, and just requires an explanation in the backstory.
Something that would be pushing my immersion (and you really shouldn't care about my immersion in particular) is it if it was Au Ra or something.
I feel like this is probably one of the best responses I have read in this thread, so thank you ! Also, I laughed at the picture
Quote:So, essentially, if you want to go with authenticity, accuracy, and appearing like a natural product of that nation, you'd want to play either Elezen or Hyur. Anything else would be regarded as an exception, and just requires an explanation in the backstory.
I agree on this ! The only thing I try to tell those who ask me is that this explanation in the backstory is something you as a player may craft. Do not feel accountable to those who would thump you on the head because it is atypical !
Quote:Something that would be pushing my immersion (and you really shouldn't care about my immersion in particular) is it if it was Au Ra or something.
Yes, is true my character is an Elezen and all around lore-bore, within-the-boundaries type. But I try so hard to make this exact point to ppl. Who cares what I think ?! Go do your thing, no ?
I am strongly of the opinion that no one has the right to stifle another person's creativity. I RP and co-lead FC with a person who RP's a Miqo'te Dragoon and they are amazing. I have RPed with another Miqo Dragoon recently by coincidence who was great too ! Live and let live ! \o /
RE: Creating a Dragoon... - V'aleera - 08-31-2015
(08-31-2015, 08:49 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: One historical exception is not a rule, yo.But it is more than enough when arguing plausibility (rather than likelihood).