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How "Easy" Is Magic? - Printable Version

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How "Easy" Is Magic? - Sigil.9054 - 07-10-2015

So, out of context, these are my questions:

- What are the factors in learning magic?
- Does it require study?
- Does it require a sort of "attunement" with the magic of the world?
- What kind of components are involved? IE, Vocal, Somatic, Material, Focus, etc.
- Does magic draw energy of some kind from the user?
- Does it vary depending on the kind of magic? If yes, how so?

More contextually...

My character is currently an archer, and I eventually plan to have them start studying magic (what kind will depend on roleplay). She's very intelligent, and learns things quick. What other obstacles would she have to deal with, and how long would it take for her to learn how to, say, heal a wound or toss a fireball?

----------------------------------------------------

I noted someone else had a question further on in the thread:

(07-12-2015, 09:30 PM)Jaques Wrote: I have another question on how other people interpenetrate aether potency. It is flat out said at several points in the MSQ that Eorzea is a land of a lot of trapped aether and quite aetherically rich.

Does anyone have any information or theories on how drawing on it are on the other continents? Would disciplines that draw aether from the environment rather than from inside oneself be more difficult to do?


RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - Melkire - 07-10-2015

- What are the factors in learning magic?

Depends on the discipline.

Generally speaking, conjurers have to learn to commune with nature, thaumaturges have to learn how to manipulate and externalize their own aether, and arcanists give form to their spells through geometries.


- Does it require study?

Yes. Although one may be naturally inclined and/or talented, study is the means by which most disciplines of magic in FFXIV learn and improve upon their control and their capabilities.


- Does it require a sort of "attunement" with the magic of the world?

Conjury and White Magic do. Black Magic does to an extent, as they fuel their spells by ripping aether from the land. Arcanima and the ancient arts on which it was based do not, to my understanding, require any sort of "attunement", although the circumstances that make one capable of summoning faeries or egis do.


- What kind of components are involved? IE, Vocal, Somatic, Material, Focus, etc.

Given the nature of Silence through Final Fantasy, it's implied although never outright stated that some form of vocal incantation might be necessary. That said, this is more a game mechanic than narrative, and nothing in the lore definitively indicates that one has to vocalize to cast.

There are, however, some materials required for specific disciplines. Thaumaturges typically construct their rods from bone, using gems for their foci. Conjurers often carry wands or staves, though it's never explicitly said to be required. Arcanists carry quill and parchment with which to ink and thereby depict their geometries.

There are workarounds in most of these cases, but these are the standards by which most disciplines find it easiest to cast.


- Does magic draw energy of some kind from the user?
- Does it vary depending on the kind of magic? If yes, how so?

Thaumaturgy and arcanima draw upon the user's own aether, which arguably doubles as their life energy. Conjury borrows the energy from the land, Black Magic steals the energy from the land, and White Magic draws upon an inexplicable source of energy known as Succor that very few have access to.


EDIT:

- What other obstacles would she have to deal with, and how long would it take for her to learn how to, say, heal a wound or toss a fireball?

Depends on what sort of obstacles you'd like to weave into her story. As for length of time, that'd depend on two factors:

1. How naturally inclined or gifted or talented your character ends up being in a particular discipline.
2. Whether or not they have access to a soul stone. Soul stones are gems that are imprinted with the memories and life experiences of those they once belonged to. They serve as cheat sheets to learning new arts and disciplines, since you can peek into what they knew and/or attune with the soul stone and thereby speed your progress and improvement.

RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - Aaron - 07-10-2015

I see using magic as akin to a workout.

The more pushups you do, the stronger you become.

The more you attempt to cast a fireball, the quicker you get the thing going.

RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - LadyRochester - 07-10-2015

(07-10-2015, 06:37 PM)Sigil.9054 Wrote: So, out of context, these are my questions:

- What are the factors in learning magic?  
- Does it require study?
- Does it require a sort of "attunement" with the magic of the world?
- What kind of components are involved? IE, Vocal, Somatic, Material, Focus, etc.
- Does magic draw energy of some kind from the user?
- Does it vary depending on the kind of magic?  If yes, how so?

More contextually...

My character is currently an archer, and I eventually plan to have them start studying magic (what kind will depend on roleplay).  She's very intelligent, and learns things quick.  What other obstacles would she have to deal with, and how long would it take for her to learn how to, say, heal a wound or toss a fireball?

1. There are multiple factors, but perhaps the most important ones are: 
- Aetherial environment: Aether is the energy people in Eorzea use to shape and form magic. It varies on intensity depending on the area you are in. Every living being has aether within them, some more intense than others, so there's a lot of variables in there.
- Character's aetherial pool: This is more about how much energy your character has to spend in the magical arts. This can be your mana pool, but t may extend to their life force under extreme situations.
- Character's education: Obviously, a character is bound to be a better mage if they were educated to be one, this, however, does not mean they can't be self-taught. 

2. Does it require study? Magic weaving is more of a skill, so the more you practice/study it, the more you are bound to show talent in the area. A character cannot pick up a tome and three days later be like "LOOK, I CAN SUMMON A CARBUNCLE!" At least not under a realistic time-frame. Basic spells should take a few weeks. if your character is gifted, maybe you can tighten it t a week, but I'd be careful with that.

3. Does it require a sort of "attunement" with the magic of the world? Yes and no. If you ant to practice, say, conjury, your character must become attuned to the elementals. But other forms of magic like thaumaturgy and arcamina require your character to at least be able to keep their aether in check. Astrologians must "attune" to constellations. Magic is very volatile in nature, so trying to cast a spell with no prior knowledge out of nowhere is bound to be messy at best.

4. What kind of components are involved? IE, Vocal, Somatic, Material, Focus, etc. The lore is extremely flexible regarding this, so I cannot answer it. Some people rp as making it vocal, others as material/somatic/etc. It's up to the roleplayer.

5&6. Does magic draw energy of some kind from the user? Does it vary depending on the kind of magic?  If yes, how so? From the official schools of magic (this excludes headcanon and other forms of magic we see in the MSQ, but we can't use OOC.) Magic DOES require to be powered by aether. Arcamina and Thaumaturgy take energy from within the caster (so they directly take from the character's mana pool.) while conjurer's "borrow" energy from the elementals. In other words, the source of energy for Arcamina and Thaumatrgy is "internal", while for Conjury it's "external." 

7. What other obstacles would she have to deal with, and how long would it take for her to learn how to, say, heal a wound or toss a fireball? For a relatively small wound/fireball? If your character is REALLY gifted, probably a couple of weeks, you could maybe tighten it to a week. Maaaayyybe. Something a little bigger would probably take at least a month (again, if they are very gifted). If you want to go even BIGGER, then I'd say years. HOWEVER, you could bypass this on a rare occasion if, say, for example, your character is going through an extremely intense situation and the aetherial conditions happen to be just right. Even then, something will probably go wrong.



Magic is very flexible when it comes to lore here, so don't be scared to experient with headcanon, just make sure you know the basic laws of aether and you're golden! Do know that just because magic is flexible does not give someone the right to godmod or be OP. Magic is powerful, but keep it within a mortal's capacity.
Wink


Sorry for the terrible grammar/spelling. Kind of wrote this in a hurry. I have VERY extended research logs regarding magic lore in the game, if you're interested in seeing them, just shoot me a message! I might actually post them in the forums.

RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - Kaniko Niko - 07-10-2015

I've really grown to enjoy Black Mage and thaumaturgy in general.

Cocobuki Wrote:Thaumaturgy is a form of arcane manipulation that allows the practitioner to unleash (his/her) will as deadly manifestations of primal power. The origin of our art can be found in the cumbersome magicks of our ancestors - subsequently focused and refined through their use in the funereal rites of the Order of Nald'thal. Though once used exclusively for the preparation of the dead, these incantations of destruction soon found new purpose on the battlefield. Hm hm hm... "Death," of course, is still very much the central focus of the discipline.

While the official game data and the above state that thaumaturgy comes from within, it's implied (at least to me) that our inner aether provides the catalyst to start the flow and we start "pushing and pulling" aether from our surroundings in and out of our physical forms.

Astral Fire and Umbral Ice.

Just, uh... Don't abuse it. Unless you really, really hate your internal organs.

RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - Roda - 07-10-2015

(07-10-2015, 07:21 PM)Kaniko Niko Wrote: I've really grown to enjoy Black Mage and thaumaturgy in general.

Cocobuki Wrote:Thaumaturgy is a form of arcane manipulation that allows the practitioner to unleash (his/her) will as deadly manifestations of primal power. The origin of our art can be found in the cumbersome magicks of our ancestors - subsequently focused and refined through their use in the funereal rites of the Order of Nald'thal. Though once used exclusively for the preparation of the dead, these incantations of destruction soon found new purpose on the battlefield. Hm hm hm... "Death," of course, is still very much the central focus of the discipline.

While the official game data and the above state that thaumaturgy comes from within, it's implied (at least to me) that our inner aether provides the catalyst to start the flow and we start "pushing and pulling" aether from our surroundings in and out of our physical forms.

Astral Fire and Umbral Ice.

Just, uh... Don't abuse it. Unless you really, really hate your internal organs.
Glad to see someone shares my headcanon for the give and take of thaumaturgy. '3'

RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - Sigil.9054 - 07-11-2015

Thank you for your responses thus far! So far it's looking like Thaumaturge and Arcanist would be the most appropriate paths for my character, given her personality. I'll also happily roleplay her taking weeks to learn the basics. ^^

RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - OttoVann - 07-11-2015

AS easy as you want it to be for YOUR character.

RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - Sigil.9054 - 07-11-2015

(07-11-2015, 01:06 AM)OttoVann Wrote: AS easy as you want it to be for YOUR character.

I suppose I'm to thank you for reminding me that it's my character, and I can do as I please.

But since I'm posting a thread requesting the input of my fellow roleplayers, one should infer that I at least marginally care about what they have to say on the matter. The manner in which I choose to play my character takes into consideration the ideas of the community in which I choose to include myself.

RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - OttoVann - 07-11-2015

(07-11-2015, 03:58 AM)Sigil.9054 Wrote:
(07-11-2015, 01:06 AM)OttoVann Wrote: AS easy as you want it to be for YOUR character.

I suppose I'm to thank you for reminding me that it's my character, and I can do as I please.

But since I'm posting a thread requesting the input of my fellow roleplayers, one should infer that I at least marginally care about what they have to say on the matter. The manner in which I choose to play my character takes into consideration the ideas of the community in which I choose to include myself.

Dont forget to infer that despite this website being based and great, its a minority on Balmung and its opinions are as such as well. Balmung is huge, this place isn't. Don't pigeon hole yourself into fitting in here above all else when you ignore a majority of the unseen RP server.

RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - Marisa - 07-12-2015

Now what I don't understand, is that I was told pretty summarily by my Linkshell that Magitek healing is impossible. But for why? It does such a great many things, one would think emulating cure or Physick would be a trivial task. Especially since, wouldn't you be able to reproduce arcanist magick with a computer and a printer? I mean, aren't they literally just drawing shapes and equations for their spells?

RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - FreelanceWizard - 07-12-2015

(07-12-2015, 12:16 AM)Ryoko Wrote: Now what I don't understand, is that I was told pretty summarily by my Linkshell that Magitek healing is impossible. But for why? It does such a great many things, one would think emulating cure or Physick would be a trivial task. Especially since, wouldn't you be able to reproduce arcanist magick with a computer and a printer? I mean, aren't they literally just drawing shapes and equations for their spells?

Arcanima's a bit more complicated than that. The geometries act as a focus and conduct aether, which is why they're typically drawn in specialized inks for the purpose. You could perhaps reproduce the geometries with a computer and a printer, but without the will to channel aether through them, they'd just be pretty pictures.

As for magitek healing, given that Garlean mobs employ "healing spells," I'm not sure why someone would assert that magitek healing is impossible. I don't recall ever seeing lore indicating that's the case. While the healing we see from Medicus mobs could be conscripts who can use magic, it could also be from magitek devices, which seem to be able to do a wide variety of things.

RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - Marisa - 07-12-2015

(07-12-2015, 01:05 AM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: Arcanima's a bit more complicated than that. The geometries act as a focus and conduct aether, which is why they're typically drawn in specialized inks for the purpose. You could perhaps reproduce the geometries with a computer and a printer, but without the will to channel aether through them, they'd just be pretty pictures.

As for magitek healing, given that Garlean mobs employ "healing spells," I'm not sure why someone would assert that magitek healing is impossible. I don't recall ever seeing lore indicating that's the case. While the healing we see from Medicus mobs could be conscripts who can use magic, it could also be from magitek devices, which seem to be able to do a wide variety of things.

I thought that seemed silly! Especially since conjury staves are supposed to be made from special trees or whatnot, yet the ironworks healing staff is very clearly a magitek device. I was told it was a lore oversight for the sake of the gear theme, but I think it's quite literally magitek healing technology!

RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - FreelanceWizard - 07-12-2015

Given that the Allagan sets are clearly not natural, and that the Ironworks set is reverse-engineered from data in Allagan tomestones, I think it's safe to say there's more ways to build instruments to channel aether than Eorzeans fully understand. Sure, the average carpenter may only know how to make a wood staff for focusing aether, but that doesn't exclude magitek and Allagan approaches.

Also, conjury isn't the only way to heal. Thaumaturges used to be able to do so in 1.0 (their inability to do so now is a lore vs. mechanics mismatch), arcanists can heal, and alchemists can as well (through potions).

So, I personally don't see any reason why magitek couldn't be used to heal directly, or that a magitek device couldn't act as an aether focus. We know from HW that considerable advances are being made in merging aether with machines -- the practice now known as machinistry.

RE: How "Easy" Is Magic? - Roda - 07-12-2015

(07-12-2015, 02:16 AM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: Also, conjury isn't the only way to heal. Thaumaturges used to be able to do so in 1.0 (their inability to do so now is a lore vs. mechanics mismatch), arcanists can heal, and alchemists can as well (through potions).
Lore vs mechanics, smore vs slechanics.
As a blackmage I just healed through half a Titan fight before the tank flew off the edge and I think that should count for something! >:T