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+--- Thread: Job Classes in RP & Glamour (/showthread.php?tid=11929)
Job Classes in RP & Glamour - Seren - 06-06-2015
I have a question, actually a few, thus I am here!
I'm still a newblet to the community, and haven't jumped into roleplay yet, as like many I'm waiting for some partners to be able to finally fantasia themselves into Au Ra so they can RP their actual character.Â
One of the biggest questions I've had is regarding classes and job classes. I've had every intention of leveling myself to eventually take white mage. So I've decided I'm playing a little conjurer in story. Having gone through some story now I got to learn some interested aspects, such as very few actually ascend to the ranks of White and Black Mages. Well this let me a tad uncertain whether RPing Seren making the transition into White Mage would constitute as being too much of a special snowflake that many fear. It's a future goal to eventually achieve with her in RP, but does everyone abide by the idea that White Mages are rare, or are we all fairly loose and excepting there are more White Mages then led onto believe?
Also in regards to that I've been trying to figure the exact timeline of when Black Mage/White Mage magic became temporarily outlawed and how long that lasted for. I've read that it indicated about 1500 years ago, but I just wanted to double check, again trying to be pretty lore friendly with anything I roleplay out.Â
My last question has to do with glamour and fantasia potions. Obviously Fantasia potions give a lot of wiggle room about things, but can it be played off as a sort of glamour? I'm not far enough in game to really be able to have a justification for it in my own mind, so I wanted to inquire if it is possible?
RE: Job Classes in RP & Glamour - Gone. - 06-06-2015
White mages are very much a rarity; it's a taboo art, one safeguarded by the Padjali who are not typically inclined to share their teachings with outsiders.
Contrary to some popular opinions, however, white magic is very much obtainable through a number of legitimate means. One could be taught by a Padjal, or perhaps your character is the adventuring sort, stumbling upon a long-lost soul crystal deep in the ruins of Amdapor. Whatever the case, it's doable with a bit of creativity and IC drive.
Rather the jobs are consider as 'special' or not is frankly up to personal interpretation; for me, they're little more than extensions of one's skill set, many serving as the root of their derivative class. This is very much true for white mage, the additional spells designed largely for last-ditch efforts. There would be very few IC situations in which any of them would be needed.
Keep in mind that there's no shame in being a mere conjurer, either; Vetiver isn't a bard or dragoon, just competent with traditional hunting weapons, willing to use them to defend herself or others if deemed necessary. There just isn't any plausible reason to make these IC. White magic, however, is another story, exceedingly relevant to her past, persona and subsequent imagery, thus she's been gifted with the privilege of safeguarding a white soul crystal.
Ultimately it's up to you to decide if your character will end up furthering their healing skills through whatever means is viable to them. Some may shun your decision, but they're the ones in the wrong for that, not you. If you want to play a white mage, then by all means, go for it! It may be a grey area, but it's not like the lore disagrees with it, either.
With that in mind, feel free to bend things to your heart's content; I'll certainly be willing to RP with a fellow white witch any day of the week. Know plenty of others that would, too.
Edit: In regards to glamours, full body ones can and do exist in-game. It's how I've played Foxglove all this time, actually; she's a Raen Au Ra disguised as a Doman Midlander until the release of Heavensward.
RE: Job Classes in RP & Glamour - Sounsyy - 06-06-2015
(06-06-2015, 08:07 AM)Seren Wrote: Well this let me a tad uncertain whether RPing Seren making the transition into White Mage would constitute as being too much of a special snowflake that many fear. It's a future goal to eventually achieve with her in RP, but does everyone abide by the idea that White Mages are rare, or are we all fairly loose and excepting there are more White Mages then led onto believe?
White Magic is a subject of much contention. While the RPC's overall stance is "RP what you want" there are a lot of people (with a lot of lore backing them) that finding a way to roleplay a White Mage character within the boundaries of lore is tenuous at best. What makes White Mages so difficult is that close to 1,600 years ago, the magic was wiped from the world in a great flood by the Elementals and when it was reintroduced to the world, the Elementals created a race known as the Padjal specifically to wield the magic. The first non-Padjal to be entrusted with even the knowledge of White Magic's existence is the Main Character Warrior of Light*.
*Note: This happened 5 years ago when an Elemental named Oha-Sok gifted her body of succor and became the WoL's clothing so that they'd carry Her everywhere. As this was the "first" non-Padjal WHM, a lot of RPers have jumped on to this concept to say this was maybe the "first of many" with a revival of the art. If you choose to go this route, this would mean you could only have very recently become a White Mage.
Very few of these Padjal exist. In lore, we know of six Padjal families. There are likely more, but they do not appear in game, and as most Padjal spend their entire life roaming the Wood, we may never see more.
This thread on CNJ vs WHM may be a helpful read for you! ^^ In the spoiler there's a lot of lore on the magic as well as some links to other similar discussions.
(06-06-2015, 08:07 AM)Seren Wrote: Also in regards to that I've been trying to figure the exact timeline of when Black Mage/White Mage magic became temporarily outlawed and how long that lasted for. I've read that it indicated about 1500 years ago, but I just wanted to double check, again trying to be pretty lore friendly with anything I roleplay out.
Regarding the bolded text, I think it's important to mention that this was not "temporary." These ancient magicks are still illegal, considered world-endingly dangerous, and have been scrubbed from history since the advent of the 6th Umbral Era, which took place almost 1,600 years ago.
The use of White Magic is now a closely guarded secret of the Padjal. No one besides them knows of its continued existence. Black Magic has not been openly practiced in 1,600 years. Those few who do still continue learning what's now referred to as the "dark arts" have done so in secret, prison, or seclusion from the rest of the world. There are shamans from the Beast Tribes which still continue to sparingly practice Black Magic. There are some gifted Thaumaturges who have sought out ways of meddling in the old art.
Here's a couple links to some THM/BLM lore and discussion. ^^
-THM Lore Compilation
-Black Magic
(06-06-2015, 08:07 AM)Seren Wrote: My last question has to do with glamour and fantasia potions. Obviously Fantasia potions give a lot of wiggle room about things, but can it be played off as a sort of glamour? I'm not far enough in game to really be able to have a justification for it in my own mind, so I wanted to inquire if it is possible?
A lot of RPers use Fantasia. A lot of RPers consider Fantasia to be merely a game item that has no place in lore. Which is fair as it has no lore substantiating its existence besides its own flavor text. So, you can play with it however you want. You can definitely use it as a form of extended glamour.
There was an older IC Glamour Thread from a few months back. You can read through some of the opinions in there and see how you'd like to proceed with that. But imo, I don't see why you couldn't use Fantasia as a "glamour," as I'm assuming you're wanting to keep your Au Ra glamoured as something else until you can actually play as your Au Ra? I think there's been quite a few folks doing that.
Hope this helps! ^^ Lemme know if you have more questions!
RE: Job Classes in RP & Glamour - Aris - 06-06-2015
Hello!
The questions you've asked regarding White Mages and Fantasia usage are some of the most argued and subjective among RP'ers. Ultimately there's no right or wrong answer, and in the end it's down to what you want to roleplay, and enjoying yourself.
The arts of White Magic are kept secret by the Padjal, and in lore only them and the Warrior of Light currently have access to it, which is why many players don't see it fit to roleplay them. As said, there are other ways of getting the secrets, which the lore team have clarified possible.
Lots of players are lore-strict and might chose not to roleplay with someone who's a White Mage, or ICly not believe your character if they met them. Others are a bit more accepting. It seems like a 50/50 split? Personally I've seen more arguments against being one than I have for.Â
I believe they also said they might make it more accessible in the future, so it'll be interesting to see where the White Mage quests go come Heavensward and if any changes are made.
As far as Fantasias go, again it's a very subjective matter! The thing about Fantasia is that it offers an awful lot of freedom. For example, someone could take it and go a kill a bunch of people and get away with it. Boom. Done and done. I have a friend who took one ICly and is now an Elezen, and another friend who strictly disagrees with they exist in lore. And I'm sure I read somewhere at the fanfest the lore team said that the fantasia potion allows the person to become their true self?
I think the bigger issue is how often they're used. If someone was abusing it, it would be quite off-putting for many.
As you can see, there's lots of different views on it and very little lore on it! So using it as a way of glamour certainly sounds plausible.
I'd also like to add that we're a tiny majority of Balmung's roleplayers here and there are many with a more relaxed approach than what you may read on this site.
RE: Job Classes in RP & Glamour - Lilia Lia - 06-06-2015
As you may have noticed, fantasia is the most controversial topic out of the ones you raised. Some (such as myself) generally frown on its use IC but there are others who are completely neutral to it.
I think the best thing to do is just petition your own RP community and the people you are planning to RP around and see what their feelings are on the matter.
I'll also echo those who said that using "glamour" to explain why your Au Ra was appearing as a different race is perfectly legitimate. In fact, so many people are doing that that it's almost turning into a player-made lore thing that Au Ra use glamour to conceal their identities.
RE: Job Classes in RP & Glamour - Seren - 06-06-2015
Oh my goodness! Thank you all for the wonderful responses to this thread as well as the links for thread discussions. Glad I manage to ask probably the most answered questions ever right there haha, sorry about that.Â
One of my favorite things about FFXIV has been their approach to magic as far as explanations, sources, differences between practices. So definitely having a little timeline help along with play views has helped shape where I want to take my character ICly in response to that. I'm glad the community is so open to RP what you want but has a solid lore backing to guide people.
- Seeing as I'm new to the game still, I built based on a lot of the FFXIV wikis explanation as to the situation with magic which was, only in recent times has it started coming back. I think perhaps some of that lead to initial misconceptions about the return on White and Black Mages. As adorable as I think the Padjal are, I think I'll stay away from the families to avoid the too special of a snowflake line. <.< I'll just need good excuses to wear all those pretty WM robes in roleplays.
- I enjoy a lot of progression so I might have my little conjurer having little dreams of being a white mage someday. Maaaaaaybe.Â
- As far as Fantasia potions and glamour, glad to hear that everyone seems to have either thought of that or have some means of doing so. I'm actually not sure if I'm going to play an Au Ra yet, but I have a friend who will once launch happens. If our RP itch couldn't hold out until the release we were simply pondering means to intergrate .
Thank you all so much for your help and discussions
RE: Job Classes in RP & Glamour - Arik - 06-06-2015
(06-06-2015, 10:38 AM)Lilia Lia Wrote: I'll also echo those who said that using "glamour" to explain why your Au Ra was appearing as a different race is perfectly legitimate. In fact, so many people are doing that that it's almost turning into a player-made lore thing that Au Ra use glamour to conceal their identities.
I'm actually one of Seren's "Au Ra" friends in question she's getting to wait on. xP
For the most part, I've planned on just waiting to enter the IC scene all together and have been simply leveling the character as an Elezen until Heavensward. He would, nonetheless, never go through a Fantasia in an IC capacity because he wouldn't exist in the RPC until he was a full-fledged Au Ra.
After seeing the extensive RP scene in game though and having caught wind of this "Au Ra and Glamours" trend, it had occurred to me to go ahead and start playing the character as incognito (just a very unconvincing Elezen.) But like Seren, I wasn't yet convinced of how believable or acceptable that would be (even to myself). That said-- we've got a hankering to start RPing ASAP, so we'll see if we can exercise enough patience to wait.Â
RE: Job Classes in RP & Glamour - LiadansWhisper - 06-06-2015
(06-06-2015, 12:11 PM)Seren Wrote: - I enjoy a lot of progression so I might have my little conjurer having little dreams of being a white mage someday. Maaaaaaybe.Â
Full Disclosure: I'm one of the people who is pretty much against people playing White Mages in most circumstances, simply because the Lore is so rigid at the moment about the ability to play one.
That said, I think one of the best ways, if not the best way, to incorporate the idea into your character is, actually, to do what you are talking about doing - have it happen in RP over time due to major character development and with the input of mutual storytelling between others in your RP circle.
So, I think this is a great idea, actually.
Edited to Add: BTW, I actually really hate that they structured the White Mage questline the way they did. I think it's incredibly short-sighted and unfair to RPers, but I don't think that the devs were really thinking of us or care about us as a whole. We're a tiny minority in the overall scheme of things.
RE: Job Classes in RP & Glamour - Aris - 06-06-2015
(06-06-2015, 12:11 PM)Seren Wrote: I'll just need good excuses to wear all those pretty WM robes in roleplays.
I enjoy a lot of progression so I might have my little conjurer having little dreams of being a white mage someday. Maaaaaaybe.Â
As far as Fantasia potions and glamour, glad to hear that everyone seems to have either thought of that or have some means of doing so. I'm actually not sure if I'm going to play an Au Ra yet, but I have a friend who will once launch happens. If our RP itch couldn't hold out until the release we were simply pondering means to intergrate .
Most people don't look at clothes too much - I know some people who have leveled Bard because they have a lot of nice outfits, but their character isn't anything Bard related.
So I wouldn't worry heavily about that kind of thing!One way around lore-outfit-issues if it does come up in conversation is to say it's a replica. For example, the White Mage AF attire is meant to be one of a kind more of less, but you could say that 'the Weaver's Guild have taken inspiration from the old designs' or something and there we go no issues there.
As far as progression goes - to me, being a White Mage isn't really the next 'rank' or ultimate aim for a Conjurer anyhow (if that's what you mean). It would take a very long time to gain the knowledge and skills to become an expert Conjurer, so the progression is still there for your lovely little character to grow.
Also, I'm very sorry to add but in this thread they've been discussing Fantasia being confirmed as lore-breaking. It won't stop anyone roleplaying it, though.