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+--- Thread: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? (/showthread.php?tid=11578)
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Gegenji - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 01:12 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote: Of course, if the new jobs are gated in Ishgard as well, we still have a problem, heh. Still very curious what level they'll start at, since they aren't starting at level 1.
I remember hearing somewhere that they start at 30.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Aya - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 11:55 AM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: I feel bad for the new players and returning players who are behind on the MSQ or ilvl and will need to catch up just to see the new content.Seriously... this right here. I know that if I ever stop playing I won't come back because of this exactly. Its the same with trying to attract new players, "Sure you can buy the game and start from scratch to come play with me, but it will be three months of grinding before you can actually do any of the new stuff with me."
Its not a very encouraging system.
Seraphyn Wrote:If someone can justify being able to access Ishgard AND maintain the integrity of the story-focused design...Well maybe that there is the problem. If they can't make their "story driven MMO" consistent with a "fun and accessible MMO" then I can tell you which one I'd like to give.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Seriphyn - 05-13-2015
Can't you still access Coerthas and Dravania with the expansion and without finishing the MSQ?
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Wymsical - 05-13-2015
I'm not surprised at all about the gating; I'm completely used to it with World of Warcraft and many other MMOs that have expansions. These new classes are supposed to be more advanced and will be starting at level 30 instead of 1; Warcraft kinda did this with death knights that required a certain level and were created completely fresh at 50 or 60. It worked out well and they were a little more difficult to learn too. Additionally, the new zones will be filled with much more difficult monsters and the content is supposed to be challenging as well. I can't imagine Heavensward sales suffering as a direct result from this. There's a LOT of content in Heavensward so the notion that this isn't worthy of being called an expansion is a little silly, I personally believe. Continuing the story is actually something I used to wish other MMOs did.Â
I'll agree on one thing though, some months down the line it'd be nice if all expansion-required Realm Reborn content was no longer required or nerfed so it could be done individually (or with NPCs! I think this idea has been mentioned by SE, actually.)
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Martiallais - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 11:55 AM)FreelanceWizard Wrote: *snip*
I may just need to devote some time each week to helping people clear the old content so they can get into the new stuff.
Emphasis mine here (and possibly totally off topic but whatever). I think maybe this was skipped over but maybe this could be a point where the community comes together to help each other? I know we've already got a thread for clearing SoF going so maybe we could do the same for general trials/dungeons/etc for the MSQ?
I know speaking only for myself I'm leveling a lowbie tank now but will be leveling a brand new Au Ra (eventually) that I could offer as help. Besides, I always like seeing RPC names ingame and am sure others feel the same, teaming up to kick over something seems like it'd be even more fun.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Kellach Woods - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 01:22 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: Can't you still access Coerthas and Dravania with the expansion and without finishing the MSQ?
Is there a point to do so (and from what I understand a lot of it will be behind the flying mounts which likely will require a MSQ unlock)?
It's the same as stepping into Mor Dhona as a level 15. You can. Doesn't mean there's any point for you to do that.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Gegenji - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 02:49 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote:(05-13-2015, 01:22 PM)Seriphyn Wrote: Can't you still access Coerthas and Dravania with the expansion and without finishing the MSQ?
Is there a point to do so (and from what I understand a lot of it will be behind the flying mounts which likely will require a MSQ unlock)?
It's the same as stepping into Mor Dhona as a level 15. You can. Doesn't mean there's any point for you to do that.
... So wouldn't going into these areas below proper iLevel also be possible, then, and just suck to do so (minus the flying stuff if it is indeed behind MSQ)? It'd be much akin to the Level 15 in Mor Dhona, just with iLevel instead of class level.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Warren Castille - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 02:54 PM)Gegenji Wrote: ... So wouldn't going into these areas below proper iLevel also be possible, then, and just suck to do so (minus the flying stuff if it is indeed behind MSQ)? It'd be much akin to the Level 15 in Mor Dhona, just with iLevel instead of class level.
Basically this.
Sure, go fight Titan in just AF and GC weapons. I'm sure that'll go fiiiiine.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Kellach Woods - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 02:54 PM)Gegenji Wrote: ... So wouldn't going into these areas below proper iLevel also be possible, then, and just suck to do so (minus the flying stuff if it is indeed behind MSQ)? It'd be much akin to the Level 15 in Mor Dhona, just with iLevel instead of class level.
Nope - 'cause if you can complete quests and advance story you'll catch up in iLevel pretty fast. Maybe not anything ideal but enough that you can keep advancing. The Level 15 in that example simply cannot ever possess gear enough that will do that.
Actually I just thought of a thing.
WHAT IF THE FIRST STUFF IN HEAVENSWARD WE CAN CRAFT IS LEVEL 50 STUFF PRECISELY TO ALLEVIATE THIS ISSUE?
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Gegenji - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 02:57 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote:(05-13-2015, 02:54 PM)Gegenji Wrote: ... So wouldn't going into these areas below proper iLevel also be possible, then, and just suck to do so (minus the flying stuff if it is indeed behind MSQ)? It'd be much akin to the Level 15 in Mor Dhona, just with iLevel instead of class level.
Nope - 'cause if you can complete quests and advance story you'll catch up in iLevel pretty fast. Maybe not anything ideal but enough that you can keep advancing. The Level 15 in that example simply cannot ever possess gear enough that will do that.
So... what is your argument now, then? I'm a bit lost.
Also, there's already i90+ gear that is craftable. Just harder to do so. However, they'll need "generic" new 51-60 gear that will likely be easy to craft. So, add that to CT/ST steamrolls, tomes, and picking up i90 gear in the Snowcloak-tier of dungeons (i80 requirement to get in, drops i90 gear), hopefully getting past the iLevel roadblock shouldn't be too much of an issue.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Warren Castille - 05-13-2015
It's not much of an issue as-is. There's plenty of readily-available i90 equipment on the market board. If you're playing an alt, buy them some. If you're a new player, you won't notice anyway because you're NEW and you'll presumably be working through the story as it drops in front of you.
The sky isn't falling.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Kellach Woods - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 03:05 PM)Gegenji Wrote: So... what is your argument now, then? I'm a bit lost.All right, now find 7 other bodies who want to go through Chrysalis/SoF. You have no resources outside PF. We are post Heavensward.
Also, there's already i90+ gear that is craftable. Just harder to do so. However, they'll need "generic" new 51-60 gear that will likely be easy to craft. So, add that to CT/ST steamrolls, tomes, and picking up i90 gear in the Snowcloak-tier of dungeons (i80 requirement to get in, drops i90 gear), hopefully getting past the iLevel roadblock shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Have fun.
The iLevel is actually less of a concern to me because of that (and chances are we'll see some pieces in the 51-55 range that go down to 48-49 just so you know). It's more the fact that you still need to find peeps to do those quests with that'll be roadblocking.
Another way to alleviate this would be by adding 2.1 to 2.55 to the Main Scenario Roulette and convert it to an alternate low-level path that grants you extra rewards if you do it at 60.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Warren Castille - 05-13-2015
For all we know they will. The DF is bound to get some overhauling since we're about to have a hojillion lv50 dungeons. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the "Challenge Roulette" where they drop you into required stories at minimum ilvl.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Gegenji - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 03:10 PM)Kellach Woods Wrote: All right, now find 7 other bodies who want to go through Chrysalis/SoF. You have no resources outside PF. We are post Heavensward.
Have fun.
The iLevel is actually less of a concern to me because of that (and chances are we'll see some pieces in the 51-55 range that go down to 48-49 just so you know). It's more the fact that you still need to find peeps to do those quests with that'll be roadblocking.
Another way to alleviate this would be by adding 2.1 to 2.55 to the Main Scenario Roulette and convert it to an alternate low-level path that grants you extra rewards if you do it at 60.
So it isn't an issue of iLevel requirements anymore and more people not wanting to run the Trials, which I can totally understand. Heck, I see plenty of it already before Heavensward is even out. When Chrysalis came out, lots of folks hated it. SoF came out, and people hate it - and some still hate doing Chrysalis even with the whole "LB the tear" simplifying tactic.
And I was "smart" enough to do it three times - once on Gogon, once on Chachan, and then again recently when powering Judge through as he skirted the iLevels at the lowest common denominator.
Hopefully the nerf to Steps means it'll be easier to do all around, including for the new folks that jump in and are trying to power through the MSQ to get to the new stuff.
But I could totally see that being a thing, though. Low-Level Main Scenario Roulette and High-Level Main Scenario Roulette seems like a feasible thing to do. As would just keeping Chrysalis and SoF in the Trial roulette (I mean, the level 49 Garlean Trial is still in there).
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Kellach Woods - 05-13-2015
That'd be interesting and definitely a way to revamp the thing that would alleviate this situation entirely.
Just make the gear from that dyeable with some exceptions and people will lose their collective minds.