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+--- Thread: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? (/showthread.php?tid=11578)
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - BroodingFicus - 06-03-2015
(06-02-2015, 03:40 PM)Gegenji Wrote: I don't think anyone here is implying that a newcomer should be able to just skip to level 30 or skip having to go through the plot to see the new areas and such. It's just that walling so much off behind the plot is frustrating. Having to do that slog would be so much easier if you got to enjoy at least a few bits of the new content along the way.
Think of it:
1.) New player comes in, makes an Au Ra because dragon/demon person! Neat!
2.) Player levels a class to 30/40, likely through doing the MSQ and get a feel for the role.
3.) They travel to Coerthas Central Highlands and wow! There's a guy who will teach me how to shoot guns! Au Ra Machinist! Kickin'!
4.) Au Ra Machinist continues through the MSQ and catches up to 2.55
5.) Au Ra Machinist heads into Heavensward.
Not every step is the same length, but giving SOME taste of what you already paid money for along the way isn't that bad of a thing, is it? Who would be hurt by it? After all, those who prepped beforehand wouldn't even need to level a class to 30/40 - they have one! And since they already caught up to the MSQ, then can hop right into Heavensward.
Or work on leveling their new jobs with all the others who picked up their new jobs... and those getting to 30/40 so they can be those super-cool jobs too.
Content stays (relatively) fresh, everyone wins.
This. So much this.
Benefits of opening new jobs at 30
1. New players feel included and not cheated if they purchased the game for the new classes/content.Â
2. Returning players don't feel as if they are going to have to play catch up for weeks in order to enjoy the things that brought them back to begin with.Â
3. Old content would get more returning, veteran players who level the Au Ra race as the new jobs on an alt rather than sacrificing an existing character on the Fantasia alter.
4. Queue times would be shorter in MSQ trials/dungeons since everyone would be experiencing old content anew.Â
5. Veteran players and new players alike would gain the necessary experience with their new Job and still get the exp from the MSQ along the way.Â
Cons of opening the jobs at 30?.....
Not really sure there are any. You could meet the job giver in Coerthas when you are sent there by the MSQ. No lore is breached, nothing needs to be rewritten. No one feels cheated, left out, behind, frustrated etc. As you said, everyone wins.Â
Unfortunately they are going with the 'but guys we made it easier to slog through all that old crap' approach and it is likely to stay that way. Most veteran players will simply fantasia an existing character to become an Au Ra rather than make a new one (why square gives me 8 slots and then wages a private war on alts, I'll never understand) and new players will just have to work through all the old stuff to catch up, hopefully not losing interest since they are playing a class they don't want the entire time. Entering Ishgard requires context. The story line requires context. I don't think anyone is going to be up in arms about immersion if we let people have great swords, guns and tarot cards. You telling me no blacksmith in the whole of Eorzea ever looked at a one handed sword and went 'huh...what if I made this bigger...what if you needed *gasp* two hands? GENIUS!'.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Kellach Woods - 06-03-2015
all this talk
and still no fuckin' reason to help noobs through 2.1 to 2.55 instances
Yes, the new jobs start at 30, but as soon as you're 50 you're going to Ishgard since you already did everything.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Cato - 06-03-2015
I know plenty of people who actively help other players get through outdated content. The entire game is set up in such a way as to ensure that there's a constant flow of players tackling new and old content alike.
Would additional incentives be a good idea? Sure - but they're not necessarily a necessity and the sort of player who needs an incentive to help out other players isn't likely to go out of their way to aid others in the first place.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - BroodingFicus - 06-03-2015
(06-03-2015, 07:58 AM)Kellach Woods Wrote: all this talk
and still no fuckin' reason to help noobs through 2.1 to 2.55 instances
Yes, the new jobs start at 30, but as soon as you're 50 you're going to Ishgard since you already did everything.
Well if they allowed you to start the classes at 30, I do think we would get a lot more people making alts since the Au Ra are dropping. Hence those people will also be redoing the 2.1-2.55 instances/content. As is, most will probably Fantasia existing characters rather than make any new ones even with the race release because they would have to level their new toon as a class they don't want start to finish.Â
Maybe I'm wrong about that but I know I am doing an alt despite the restrictions and so I would bet there are others out there(especially here) who would make an additional character rather than Fantasia if it wasn't being made such a pain.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Mordred Lyloche - 06-03-2015
Sitting here trying to understand how people think it's hard to gear in this game. I hit 50 yesterday and I'm already iLevel 71. Lol. Just put a little bit of work in your characters and you'll be golden without a problem.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Addison - 06-04-2015
As a new player, I see nothing wrong with the requirements. In fact, I'm completely baffled how many people are upset by this. I played FFXI for years and this was common practice.
Regardless, wouldn't everyone rather have a person who learned the game and their class through the core game rather than have some idiot who played for 2 days in their group?
Yea it takes committment. Yup it takes work. This is an MMO. You can't expect to beat it overnight or even at all.
Am I put off by this? Not at all. If enough new players are put off by it they can speak for themselves. But all the vets saying "but new players!!!!" certainly aren't speaking for me.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - McBeefâ„¢ - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 02:01 PM)Addison Wrote: As a new player, I see nothing wrong with the requirements. In fact, I'm completely baffled how many people are upset by this. I played FFXI for years and this was common practice.
Regardless, wouldn't everyone rather have a person who learned the game and their class through the core game rather than have some idiot who played for 2 days in their group?
Yea it takes committment. Yup it takes work. This is an MMO. You can't expect to beat it overnight or even at all.
Am I put off by this? Not at all. If enough new players are put off by it they can speak for themselves. But all the vets saying "but new players!!!!" certainly aren't speaking for me.
This is why FFXIV is a good game, the Japanese devs do not pay attention to the whining of the western playerbase.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Naunet - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 02:01 PM)Addison Wrote: Regardless, wouldn't everyone rather have a person who learned the game and their class through the core game rather than have some idiot who played for 2 days in their group?
Please explain how being forced to level as something other than the job you want to play helps you learn your class through the "core game"?
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Gegenji - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 02:25 PM)Naunet Wrote:(06-04-2015, 02:01 PM)Addison Wrote: Regardless, wouldn't everyone rather have a person who learned the game and their class through the core game rather than have some idiot who played for 2 days in their group?
Please explain how being forced to level as something other than the job you want to play helps you learn your class through the "core game"?
That's the crux of my argument for letting someone who has bought Heavensward be able to pick up the new jobs at 30/40. I have three characters leveled to 50 and all caught up with the MSQ, one of which was made ahead of time to be an Au Ra DRK once it dropped. I didn't mind it, but I can see where the issue lies for those who have issue. And I do feel it's something that needs addressing.
By putting the class you want behind the gate of the MSQ, you're not learning the core game as the class you want to play. You're learning it (if you're not just rushing through it, which will be even faster now with the EXP bonuses and such they're adding) as a completely unrelated class. In fact, there is nothing in place to keep you from leveling Bard from 1-50, catching up to the MSQ, and picking up DRK.
What does this player have to bring to the table that is all that different than someone who played BRD to 30/40 would other than an extra 10/20 levels of that unrelated class? What about someone who has leveled PLD/WAR to 30/40? No matter what class or what level it is when they finally gain access to the new jobs, they are effectively having to learn an entirely new class.
So why make them have to jump all through those extra unnecessary hoops to do it? I personally, don't see any harm in them being able to get it at 30 like any other job, or at 40 if you want them to do a little extra work for it like we had to for ROG.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - V'aleera - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 02:01 PM)Addison Wrote: wouldn't everyone rather have a person who learned the game and their class through the core game rather than have some idiot who played for 2 days in their group?This is already going to happen with the system as is.
You know all those terrible players you get in DF who refuse to listen to correction and who insist that their terrible play is the best possible play and that you need to stfu? Well, they're going to get to make one (or more) of these new classes right off the bat, level them up in a few days, and be a part of your groups playing a whole new class that they understand even less than the ones they were already playing.
Please look forward to it.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - McBeefâ„¢ - 06-04-2015
Kill all new players.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - ArmachiA - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 02:01 PM)Addison Wrote: As a new player, I see nothing wrong with the requirements. In fact, I'm completely baffled how many people are upset by this. I played FFXI for years and this was common practice.
Regardless, wouldn't everyone rather have a person who learned the game and their class through the core game rather than have some idiot who played for 2 days in their group?
Yea it takes committment. Yup it takes work. This is an MMO. You can't expect to beat it overnight or even at all.
Am I put off by this? Not at all. If enough new players are put off by it they can speak for themselves. But all the vets saying "but new players!!!!" certainly aren't speaking for me.
You have a point in that last sentence. I'd love to hear what new players think, honestly. I have a few in my FC now who don't seem to mind but... anecdotal evidence.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Uninstalldotexe - 06-04-2015
Different strokes for different Devs. With Heavensward around the corner it's likely nothing can be done to accommodate earlier access to jobs. Besides, once Heavensward releases, none of this will matter as we'll all be playing in our little bubble.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Addison - 06-04-2015
(06-04-2015, 02:25 PM)Naunet Wrote:(06-04-2015, 02:01 PM)Addison Wrote: Regardless, wouldn't everyone rather have a person who learned the game and their class through the core game rather than have some idiot who played for 2 days in their group?
Please explain how being forced to level as something other than the job you want to play helps you learn your class through the "core game"?
Are you stating, in a round about way, that there's actually a large and substantial amount of potential new players that will only be motivated to buy and subscribe to FFXIV because of a small handful of classes in an expansion?
The keyword here is new. Not a veteran leveling their 5th alt. The argument I'm seeing thrown around this thread a lot is the mistreatment of new players with this gated content, and speaking as a new player, I don't see it as mistreatment at all. This has been the way of MMOs since...well since MMOs and expansions were a thing, I imagine. (I didn't play EQ or UO. FFXI was my first MMO and this type of stuff was certainly present in that game.)
So, with that being said, I'll explain how being forced to level something other than the job someone wants to play helps you learn the core game (I didn't just say class. I did say "the game" as well) when you show me all these potential new players who refuse to play FFXIV unless they have access to one of these new classes from the word "go". Because, as it stands, I just don't believe it. It just sounds absurd that a person with little to no previous history in this game will only pick up the game because of a class they have zero knowledge of.
RE: Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice? - Kellach Woods - 06-04-2015
Honestly the ilevel requirements are cake and they're helping out with those by upping the level of the rewards you get from MSQ. Although the easiest way to gear is with the 24 mans and I'm pretty sure those'll stop to a grinding halt come HW.
Still won't help you find 7 other patsies to do Chrysalis/Steps.