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+--- Thread: IC Dungeons (/showthread.php?tid=10911)
IC Dungeons - FloriaRaine - 04-01-2015
Awhile back during an IC dungeon i had done with some friends, a couple of them had pointed out that the enemies were stupidly going after the tank, pointing out their strategy of "Going for the most heavily armored target first".
I recalled this the other day and have been thinking about it for awhile, how do some of you handle this in IC duties? Do you follow the log horizon route (Atleast this was an idea i've first seen in log horizon, probably done else where) that the tank's attacks are designed to make the enemy think they're taking more damage than they are, so they go after the 'bigger' threat, atleast in the sword and board paladin's case, perhaps the sheer savagery of the marauders and warriors invokes fear into the hearts of our enemies, causing them to want to take down this wild beast before they (Maim) and (Fracture) and even (Skull Sunder) them?
Or perhaps you play differently in an ic dungeon, going with more spread out tactics that would make more sense icly?
RE: IC Dungeons - Gegenji - 04-01-2015
I usually have Chachan actively imposing himself between the enemies and his allies ICly. So it's not so much that the enemy is "focusing" on him as much as it's a matter of them having to go through him to get to them. Harrying them with blade and shield just further cements that ignoring him and just continuing onward would be a bad idea.
RE: IC Dungeons - No Longer Exists - 04-01-2015
*Peeks out from under the Hat* Picture yourself in a room drinking a cup of water. Suddenly, a man with a fireaxe comes running in and comes at you with the axe. Are you concerned most about the man with the axe or that there might be other people behind him?Â
Animal instincts do not consider non-aggressive threats, which is what our Threat system is based on. Beasts attack what either gets too close to them for comfort or whatever they see as a predatory threat. A man throwing an axe or shield at them is a predatory threat.Â
People are essentially higher functioning animals (some might say otherwise
 ) and as such, we have similar if not exact instinctual reactions to certain primitive stimuli. Groups of people during large disasters like train wrecks or vehicle accidents can tell you that the train hit something but after that, their details are based on the psychological perspective of threat assessment. So theoretically, unless a black mage runs into Stone Vigil's room of doom screaming "LEEEEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOY JENKINS!", the only thing the aevis and ziz are going to care about is the big metal guy who threw something at them.
If you'll notice, unless the tank stops hooting and hollaring and swinging his metal object of hurty death about, these things maintain focus on him/her. If he/she does stop, they eventually see other threats and pursue them based on "Threat Assessment".
Hope this helps!
- Black Hat
RE: IC Dungeons - FreelanceWizard - 04-01-2015
When I've done it, it depends on the tank and how they want to RP things. L'yhta, when she's out in front, relies on a combination of insults ("HEY SQUID FACE!", "I'm prettier than you now that you're dead!", "Hey! HEY! Look at me! Look at all the things I'm doing over here!" and the like) and magical trickery (i.e., Flash and Provoke). I've seen others go with the "I'm the biggest dude in the room, running in with an axe" strategy, the "I actively get in the way of people trying to get past me" strategy, or even the "I use physical or magical means to prevent you from getting past me" strategy.
And... sometimes, we just sort of handwave the whole thing if the tank doesn't want to go into it.
RE: IC Dungeons - Berrod Armstrong - 04-01-2015
When I do it, it's usually a matter of the tank -intervening-. We don't do the whole 'everyone attacks the tank' thing. It's more like 'the tank runs and stands between the bad guys and the party, so they have to take him down to get to the rest'.
RE: IC Dungeons - Khadan - 04-01-2015
A standard military doctrine for small unit combat would basically dictate that you position your most heavily armored person at the fore while your 'flankers' sweep in form the sides to incapacitate your enemy while you keep an archer or "ranged" at the back to not only keep people from overwhelming your position but also to pick off exposed targets of opportunity. Of course in this case you can add in "the healer" but generally speaking it'd be like a diamond pattern with tank at the fore and "dps" at the side points ready to flank the target being engaged.Â
That way it's less to do with "hurr they're attacking the heavily armored guy first what a bunch of dumbasses" to a more realistic "they have to get through our heavy first and he's not likely to go down anytime soon".
RE: IC Dungeons - V'aleera - 04-01-2015
Also keep in mind that the damage dealing classes all have some form of mobility featured either within their mechanics or within their theme (the exception being the ACN/SMN). So beyond simply recognizing that the non-tanks are a threat, the enemy would need to pursue these much more mobile foes while still dealing with the big jerk in armor swinging a sword/axe at them.
RE: IC Dungeons - Zelmanov - 04-01-2015
You even see it in League of Legends, people stupidly focus the tank all the time, usually because there is no choice. You have this big unkillable thing coming your way, sewing chaos and destruction, you can't ignore the tank because it is doing crowd control and disruption but you also can't focus it because he will not die and the real damage will tear you apart. If tanks/damage sponges were useless, they would not show up in high level plays in league.Â
So that's how I see it in game, the paladin is really a giant physical barrier to getting to anyone else, and the warrior has an axe so heavy that turning your back on him will have you bowled over/pummelled so you can never really truly attack the monk punching your butt. Dark Knight will probably work on a similar aspect as warrior combined with whatever darkness to cloud the area and see only one real viable target
this lends to the AOE tanking, the Warrior's overpower/steel cyclone and Paladin's flash/circle of scorn, it just routes so much chaos that they just want it to stop.
also have to put into account that the melee dps are all ULTRA mobile. Dragoons can jump super high and out of reach, Ninjas are Ninjas and Monks are so lightly encumbered that they can roll and flip out of the way. So monsters and human targets alike will most likely go "SCREW IT" And attack the least mobile thing in the way that is also begging to be hit.
RE: IC Dungeons - FloriaRaine - 04-02-2015
Thanks for your replies everyone, they were interesting to read. I never thought it'd be based on any sort of instinct, in fact i would have figured instinct would tell you there's some bard slinging arrows off to the side and a dragoon jumping on you, but i guess the guy in front would be the focus. Thanks everyone for your insight