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+--- Thread: Persistent RP parties (/showthread.php?tid=650)
Re: Persistent RP parties - Satisiun - 09-15-2010
MereLee Wrote:One doesn't have to conflict with the other at all.
Perhaps. But right here, the OP them self explicitly says about communicating with other people in the world ...
NillaShadow Wrote:[...] I would just make those characters not exist to my character within the RP. It can be annoying sometimes, but I think the payoff would be well worth it.
I think that is really bad form right there, I am sorry to say. And it is a conflict of interest, because it basically says that one does not want to acknowledge other players.
And even if they were up to speed it wouldn't make sense to interact with them, going off of all I am hearing and reading so far. Your account of what occurred when you took down the Dread Judge Gabranth may vary by leaps and bounds by someone else's, because you were not there with the other player, taking part in the same battle, with the same PCs that other player was around.
To me, this seems like a case of wanting to have your cake and eat it, too. When one wants to be able to partake in the open world and the multiple other role play opportunities, but at the same time are deciding for themselves that they -- and those whom they deem fit -- are permitted to be recognized.
There seems very little room for debate on this. And I am seeing some rather uncomfortable parallels between this topic and the etiquette thread we had, not to mention the issue of character secrets in another thread. What it really boils down to, and perhaps I am just being a stubborn old goat here, is you have two options:
1) You can have your private RP, but in effect you also have to sacrifice the ability to interact with other people. Basically, you will use Final Fantasy XIV as a multi-player role-playing game, instead of a massively multi-player online role-playing game, in which only a set number of players is communicated with and interacted with throughout the game, so long as you are playing through the entirety of the game's actual storyline.
Think of it almost like playing Baldur's Gate with several other players at the same time, in that regard.
2) You forsake the storyline, and permit yourself to interact and communicate with the other people in the game without fear of forcing one's own activities involving somehow being the world's amazing, epic savior to us all on other people. It isn't like you will miss out on opportunities of great character development, or even amazing stories or experiences by doing this. Sometimes you make your own.
You're free to make a second character and actually partake in both options. But this whole situation just seems a bit too ... ehn. Flexibility is a wonderful thing when it comes to smaller quests, and perhaps even some larger issues (like that discussion about FFXI artifact armor quests back in the etiquette topic). But "You defeated the Empire!" just isn't one of those things that allows for much flexibility.
And one counter-argument I can see being made is, "Well, what if my character never speaks of it?" To that I say ...
... c'mon. Really? You nor anyone in your band will ever talk of the epic, melodramatic, bard's tale-worthy events that you are partaking in? That just won't fly, barring you're a mute.
Re: Persistent RP parties - Chveya - 09-15-2010
Asyria Wrote:Therefore, when RPing with others outside of your Party
This is a key line, I believe.
IF you are an RPer who prefers to mainly RP within your LS -- and that's awesome if you are! No judgements! -- then you may never see a problem.
But IF you are an RPer who interacts with a broad spectrum of people, it's going to wind up being very limiting to, as the OP said,
Quote:I would just make those characters not exist to my character within the RP.
It's going to wind up being limiting more to yourself, than anyone else; but moreover, it's just rude. How do you know that their RP conflicts with yours right away? You don't.
So if you and I, for example, are in an RP interaction, we might interact on and off casually for weeks before a conflict of storylines comes up. Do you suddenly *blink* that RP out of existence?
However, if - as I said above - you prefer to limit your RP primarily to your LS and very close friends, you may never experience a problem. Just be aware that problems could arise, and you're just as much responsible for handling them respectfully as anyone else is.
Re: Persistent RP parties - NillaShadow - 09-16-2010
Alright, so an easy solution to this (working off of Satisiun said) is that you have an LS for the persistant group, within which you RP canon material throughout the storyline. Then you have non-LS interactions which involve those not necessarily at the same point in the story as you, and as such you should not discuss story events, but you can still interact as your character in order to RP with the broader RP community. It's clear that there's two distinct groups of RP, but as long as the RP in the LS stays in the LS, there should be no discernable difference to those not in the LS.
I guess it would be similar to having another layer on top of IC (maybe ICC for In Canon Character). If you think about it, you already interact on these different levels whenever you RP. You act as yourself in OOC, then (as on the main page under "Linkshells") there are levels ranging from light RP to heavy RP where a certain degree of OOC is permitted/expected of you. If there were a persistent canon rp group, they could just create a linkshell and keep canon RP scenes in the linkshell. This way there's really no harm done to those outside the canon group, and those in the canon group can either create a character to RP outside the canon group, or use the base personality traits of their character to RP outside of the canon group.
Re: Persistent RP parties - Mycroft - 09-16-2010
Why are so many of you focusing on the negative aspects of this?
It isn't proposed to being the only way one should RP, only as a way to develop a shared story.
I myself have done this many times and rarely encountered any troubles in regards to other RPers outside of the "party".
Seeing as FFXIV's storyline will most likely play out like FFXI's with heroic NPCs doing all of the killing and your character only assisting in their endeavours, it is possible to be a witness to some of the grand events without having done anything of a spectacular nature.
When RPing one has to be able to adapt, as the shared stories aren't something you've prepared together (Mostly).
Re: Persistent RP parties - ArmachiA - 09-16-2010
Well here's my experience on the issue:
When Crimson Pirates was the only RP group on the server in FFXI, we followed the storyline pretty much to the letter. Set up events for missions and once those missions were finished we assumed that time had passed, even if you weren't part of the event. If you did the event later, it was OOC and didn't count toward your character growth. This worked for awhile, we were relatively small and didn't bother anyone else on the server with RP, so it was easy for us to take the claim.
The problems started after the Shadowlord storyline. Our guild had just killed the Shadowlord and was heading into the Zilart storyline when more RP groups actually began to appear. Things within our story was contradicting their's - they hadn't killed the Shadowlord yet and in their storyline he still existed. At first we went about this the wrong way - we ignored them and pretended they didn't exist. Their characters existed in some AU that we pretended we couldn't see. We realized later we were limiting ourselves, never interacting with other RP groups and making ourselves completely insular made us look... well snobbish. So we did a lot of retconning for Zilart. Instead of making our characters central to the storyline, we made them around the storyline while giving ourselves our own story (I.E. My character began working for Zilart and became a bad guy, but had her own storyline for this). This ended up working out a lot better as our characters could finally perceive the other roleplayers on the server.
Everytime an expansion came out, however, we did a big storyline to get into that expansion and then said the past expansions were simply past time - which actually worked out as a great compromise. As an expansion occurs whatever happens is absolutely going to effect your character and their motivations.
When we moved to WoW we didn't even try to be a part of the "I KILLED SOANSSO"crowd, but instead had each expansion effect our characters (I.E when The Burning Crusade came out, it was assumed that the storyline for Vanilla WoW was over and done with and we talked about it in character past tense. When Wraith came out, we had our character be part of the big ol' army that was helping defeat Illidan and his ilk, but we personally never saw the guy. As Blood Elves, before Wraith came out, those who spoke out against Prince Kael'thas were considered traitors, while after those who still supported the giant douche were considered insane.)
That is probably how we'll do things in FFXIV as well.
If you want to do the epic game storyline with your characters in the center of it all instead of being effected by it all, I would suggest doing it AU, so you don't end up pissing off the entire community by saying you killed the main badguy.
Re: Persistent RP parties - Asyria - 09-16-2010
Malrend Wrote:Why are so many of you focusing on the negative aspects of this?It's because the one negative aspect is one that has potential to disrupt RP for both the OP and his group and for everyone else they interact with, so it's kind of a big issue.
The Cannon Party will ignore characters whose story conflicts with theirs and characters will ignore the Cannon Party everytime they bring up the Cannon storyline in RP, so there's a lot of potential for isolation there, which kinda goes against the idea of a RP Community.
However, and most importantly, the OP already agreed with the idea of keeping the Cannon RP within their
Cannon Party/LS only so that should fix everything (though they only acknowledged Satisun and not me as far as bringing up the idea, which makes me a sad panda, but I'll live ^^; )
That said, if I didn't already have my one character slot taken up, I might be interested in this.. I know a few FF games I would have loooooooooooooved to RP through.
Re: Persistent RP parties - Soren Miren - 09-16-2010
ArmachiA Wrote:When we moved to WoW we didn't even try to be a part of the "I KILLED SOANSSO"crowd, but instead had each expansion effect our characters (I.E when The Burning Crusade came out, it was assumed that the storyline for Vanilla WoW was over and done with and we talked about it in character past tense. When Wraith came out, we had our character be part of the big ol' army that was helping defeat Illidan and his ilk, but we personally never saw the guy. As Blood Elves, before Wraith came out, those who spoke out against Prince Kael'thas were considered traitors, while after those who still supported the giant douche were considered insane.)
That is probably how we'll do things in FFXIV as well.
If you want to do the epic game storyline with your characters in the center of it all instead of being effected by it all, I would suggest doing it AU, so you don't end up pissing off the entire community by saying you killed the main badguy.
This is precisely how I have and will continue to handle the subject, although I personally take it a step further and, at least in the case of WoW, would base storylines around patches moreso than I would around full expansions. Granted, this depended upon whether a patch actually moved a storyline forward or not. For example, the Sunwell patch made it clear that Kael'thas was a traitor to Silvermoon, and so the political atmosphere changed then rather than in Wrath after he would have been considered dead. Similarly, by the time ICC was introduced, the Trials would have already determined the unnamed heroes that ultimately defeat the Lich King.
I also agree that its possible to place your character in certain events as participants, just not the central heroes. If for example there ends up being some gigantic battle between the Garlean armies and the people of the city-states, it's reasonable to say that your character might have been a participant or witness. The same applies to the parade in Ul'dah, or even as was mentioned earlier, using the Limsa Lominsa opening sequence in some fashion.
Re: Persistent RP parties - Satisiun - 09-16-2010
Asyria Wrote:(though they only acknowledged Satisun and not me as far as bringing up the idea, which makes me a sad panda, but I'll live ^^; )
What can I say? Chicks dig the walls of text.
[size=xx-smal]And I'm teasing, of course.[/size]
Re: Persistent RP parties - Trizzip - 09-16-2010
ArmachiA Wrote:At first we went about this the wrong way - we ignored them and pretended they didn't exist. Their characters existed in some AU that we pretended we couldn't see.
Is that why we never RP'd together that much?
<3 u Armi
Re: Persistent RP parties - NillaShadow - 09-16-2010
Asyria Wrote:The Cannon Party will ignore characters whose story conflicts with theirs and characters will ignore the Cannon Party everytime they bring up the Cannon storyline in RP, so there's a lot of potential for isolation there, which kinda goes against the idea of a RP Community.
Asyria Wrote:However, and most importantly, the OP already agreed with the idea of keeping the Cannon RP within their Cannon Party/LS only so that should fix everything
(though they only acknowledged Satisun and not me as far as bringing up the idea, which makes me a sad panda, but I'll live ^^; )
That said, if I didn't already have my one character slot taken up, I might be interested in this.. I know a few FF games I would have loooooooooooooved to RP through.
Sorry for not giving cred D:
Anyway, I do think the reserved linkshell idea solves a lot of problems with keeping the cannon rp with the cannon rp characters. However, this does limit the interaction with non-cannon players. This can be solved if the players with cannon characters create alt characters which are not involved with their cannon characters. Since this is strictly an RP difference, the player can use the same avatar (and therefore not have to pay an extra fee per month). If the players do this, they can interact with both cannon and non-cannon players, and no impossibility scenarios arise. For those who have done strictly text rp (like in a chat room or MUD on IRC), this would be like switching between rooms and RPing a separate character in each room, but using the same program/client in order to do so.
Re: Persistent RP parties - ArmachiA - 09-16-2010
Brin Ahlrine Wrote:ArmachiA Wrote:At first we went about this the wrong way - we ignored them and pretended they didn't exist. Their characters existed in some AU that we pretended we couldn't see.
Is that why we never RP'd together that much?
<3 u Armi
Preeeeetttttyy much.
Sorry, Brin <3
Re: Persistent RP parties - Asyria - 09-16-2010
NillaShadow Wrote:Sorry for not giving cred D:
Anyway, I do think the reserved linkshell idea solves a lot of problems with keeping the cannon rp with the cannon rp characters. However, this does limit the interaction with non-cannon players. This can be solved if the players with cannon characters create alt characters which are not involved with their cannon characters. Since this is strictly an RP difference, the player can use the same avatar (and therefore not have to pay an extra fee per month). If the players do this, they can interact with both cannon and non-cannon players, and no impossibility scenarios arise. For those who have done strictly text rp (like in a chat room or MUD on IRC), this would be like switching between rooms and RPing a separate character in each room, but using the same program/client in order to do so.
That's also a pretty good idea!
And don't worry about credit, mine was just a line at the bottom of another suggestion, Satisun actually developed on it more.
I was just kidding cause it seems to happen a lot. ^^;
Re: Persistent RP parties - Mycroft - 09-16-2010
Asyria Wrote:And don't worry about credit, mine was just a line at the bottom of another suggestion, Satisun actually developed on it more.
I was just kidding cause it seems to happen a lot. ^^;
I hear ya.. It happens a lot, well I'm known my short responses might have something to do with that.
Re: Persistent RP parties - NillaShadow - 09-16-2010
Alright, so from this discussion, it seems that there are two concerns about cannon RP groups. 1: Interference by the cannon group with non-cannon group (creating impossible scenarios and spoilers), 2: Exclusion of either the cannon group or the non-cannon group (limiting the portion of the community that a player can interact with). 1 is solved by the reserved linkshell (so long as cannon material stays within the linkshell), and 2 is solved by creating separate characters for cannon and non-cannon purposes.
If a cannon group does emerge, here is a starting list of rules to ensure an enjoyable experience for all. Please give suggestions if you see something that isn't here or something that doesn't belong here.
1: Keep cannon RP and cannon discussion in the reserved linkshell
2: Do not under any circumstances mention any cannon material in a public setting
3: Create at least one character for the cannon setting, and one character for the non-cannon setting.
4: Maintain and keep track of each of these characters so you don't get confused which one you are using
5: In pre-set cannon scenes, your character should be an observer of the event, or not directly affected
6: Be creative, and use the cannon story without trying to be the main character (acting as the main character should be kin to god-modding)
Thanks so much for helping me work through this issue, your input is invaluable!
Re: Persistent RP parties - MereLee - 09-16-2010
NillaShadow Wrote:5: In pre-set cannon scenes, your character should be an observer of the event, or not directly affected
6: Be creative, and use the cannon story without trying to be the main character (acting as the main character should be kin to god-modding)
In the Gridania storyline, our avatar speaks to moogles ... so in the RP we didn't talk to the moogles ??
I like moogles, kupo~ T_T
