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+--- Thread: Au Ra Naming Assistance (/showthread.php?tid=12124)
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - Seraphine Felstar - 06-19-2015
Thanks everyone for the great links! Â Keep 'em coming!Â
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - Yours Truly - 06-20-2015
I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who's been posting thoughts, advice, and resources since the naming conventions came out, in this thread and others. You've been an enormous help!
This is tricky, and I'm fairly clueless. I've been bumbling through the lists linked here and I've come up with a few potential names that I like, but I really wanted to double-check with the more knowledgeable people here before I proceed, just to make sure they're from the right era and grammatically sound.
Do Kanehana and/or Yasuhana function as names? How about if you wanted to have a name that involves the words for "princess" and "bird", would Himetori or Torihime work? Aside from those, if anyone has suggestions for other names that invoke concepts like warmth, gentleness, dance/music, gold, or white/paleness. Basically, anything that a traditional Raen of the warrior class might name a doted-on daughter.
Secondly, the surname - does anyone have any ideas for something that roughly translates to "spearman", or what have you? If I can't find anything better I'm thinking of just going with Kamayari, but I'm not fond of how literal it is to have the surname just straight-up be the name of a weapon.
I hope it's okay to ask questions here; if not, I can edit out my post. Thanks again for the links.
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - allgivenover - 06-20-2015
(06-20-2015, 06:30 AM)Yours Truly Wrote: Do Kanehana and/or Yasuhana function as names? How about if you wanted to have a name that involves the words for "princess" and "bird", would Himetori or Torihime work? Aside from those, if anyone has suggestions for other names that invoke concepts like warmth, gentleness, dance/music, gold, or white/paleness. Basically, anything that a traditional Raen of the warrior class might name a doted-on daughter.
Secondly, the surname - does anyone have any ideas for something that roughly translates to "spearman", or what have you? If I can't find anything better I'm thinking of just going with Kamayari, but I'm not fond of how literal it is to have the surname just straight-up be the name of a weapon.
Kanehana/Yasuhana: These are more like surnames - the entirety of the words being written out rather than shortened. Japanese are really fond of shortening everything, especially for aliases and given names.
Japanese names can be very complicated, especially pre-modern names. Almost all of them can be written in a way that conveys a meaning that you isn't heard when it's spoken unless you are very experienced with inflection, and sometimes even the true meaning may only be known when it's written..
Example: The character hana 花 (flower) can be used in the name 朱澄花 (Suzuka), with the last syllable "ka" being written with the character 花's on-yomi reading
This happens because there are two ways 花 can be read, the kun-yomi reading - native Japanese reading, and the on-yomi reading - the chinese reading. Almost all kanji have on-yomi readings except for the ones that were developed exclusively in Japan.
Torihime/Himetori: Unfortunately it's not a good idea to just push two words together to make a name, that's not how Japanese evolved. Torihime and Himetori (I assume you're going for bird princess) are not really any sort of name I've ever heard of or read about, it'd be more a title if anything.
As for a surname that means spearman, you could use the word spear 鎗, as Au Ra Raen/Doman ruling warrior class names do seem to be rather direct. If that doesn't do it for you there's also éŽ—å ´ (Yariba) which literally means spear place, that might read as rather common to a native Japanese, unfortunately my knowledge kind of ends there. I never got around to extensively studying Japanese name etymology.
My best advice if you're worried about being authentic? Mash the random name generator until you find a given name you like, then write it down and mash it again until you find a surname you like, then look up that surname's meaning, if it has something to do with war then you're golden.
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - Nero - 06-20-2015
(06-20-2015, 06:30 AM)Yours Truly Wrote: Do Kanehana and/or Yasuhana function as names? How about if you wanted to have a name that involves the words for "princess" and "bird", would Himetori or Torihime work? Aside from those, if anyone has suggestions for other names that invoke concepts like warmth, gentleness, dance/music, gold, or white/paleness. Basically, anything that a traditional Raen of the warrior class might name a doted-on daughter.
Secondly, the surname - does anyone have any ideas for something that roughly translates to "spearman", or what have you? If I can't find anything better I'm thinking of just going with Kamayari, but I'm not fond of how literal it is to have the surname just straight-up be the name of a weapon.
Regarding your first point: if you were to be strictly following naming convention, then technically Yasuhana and Kanehana are a little too modern to adhere to Raen naming convention. However, I really wouldn't worry about that though unless you're looking for extreme lore adherence that only Japanese players will really understand anyway, so if you want to use those then feel free to. The main part of Raen names is the meaning: every part of the name means something. Modern or not, as long as your name has a meaning then really any Japanese-sounding word will do.
For "bird princess", Torihime is the more concise, "literal" translation of it.
As for your second, you have a few options. The Japanese word for spear is "Yari", so you can build some literal names off of that. "Yarijin" means "Spear person", more specifically "Spearmanship person". "Yarikihei" is a lancer. "Soujutsu-ka" means "Person of the art of the spear", while Soujotsu is "Art of the spear". Look around or play with a dictionary for a bit and you'll probably find something you like.
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - allgivenover - 06-20-2015
(06-20-2015, 11:01 AM)Nero Wrote: Regarding your first point: if you were to be strictly following naming convention, then technically Yasuhana and Kanehana are a little too modern to adhere to Raen naming convention. However, I really wouldn't worry about that though unless you're looking for extreme lore adherence that only Japanese players will really understand anyway, so if you want to use those then feel free to. The main part of Raen names is the meaning: every part of the name means something. Modern or not, as long as your name has a meaning then really any Japanese-sounding word will do.
For "bird princess", Torihime is the more concise, "literal" translation of it.
As for your second, you have a few options. The Japanese word for spear is "Yari", so you can build some literal names off of that. "Yarijin" Â means "Spear person", more specifically "Spearmanship person". "Yarikihei" is a lancer. "Soujutsu-ka" means "Person of the art of the spear", while Soujotsu is "Art of the spear". Look around or play with a dictionary for a bit and you'll probably find something you like.
This is way off.
Yarijin would literally translate as "spear human", it's shoving the separate words "spear" and "human" together. It says to the reader that you're more a human spear than a spear using human.
In this context Soujutsu is "art of the spear", soujutsuka is best translated as "spear man/woman". The final character 家 (ka) in this case is sort of like putting "ist" at the end of a word in english that might describe a person's skill set (like illusionist). Thus the "literal" translation of soujutsuka is "spearist".
"Spearist" is really... wrong in English right? This is what you're doing in the other direction when you mash words together to create names like Yarijin, yes it has a meaning, but it's just off in ways that's going to make you stick out like a sore thumb among Raen NPCs.
Lancer is "soukihei", "yarikihei" is again shoving two words together that individually have meaning but is really awkward when forced together this way.
If you're fine with something that seems Japanese to a non-speaker, then it's fine to approach naming your Raen so haphazardly, but this topic is about assistance for following Au Ra Raen naming conventions, and that way is not the way to go about it.
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - Nero - 06-20-2015
(06-20-2015, 12:17 PM)allgivenover Wrote:(06-20-2015, 11:01 AM)Nero Wrote: Regarding your first point: if you were to be strictly following naming convention, then technically Yasuhana and Kanehana are a little too modern to adhere to Raen naming convention. However, I really wouldn't worry about that though unless you're looking for extreme lore adherence that only Japanese players will really understand anyway, so if you want to use those then feel free to. The main part of Raen names is the meaning: every part of the name means something. Modern or not, as long as your name has a meaning then really any Japanese-sounding word will do.
For "bird princess", Torihime is the more concise, "literal" translation of it.
As for your second, you have a few options. The Japanese word for spear is "Yari", so you can build some literal names off of that. "Yarijin" Â means "Spear person", more specifically "Spearmanship person". "Yarikihei" is a lancer. "Soujutsu-ka" means "Person of the art of the spear", while Soujotsu is "Art of the spear". Look around or play with a dictionary for a bit and you'll probably find something you like.
This is way off.
Yarijin would literally translate as "spear human", it's shoving the separate words "spear" and "human" together. It says to the reader that you're more a human spear than a spear using human.
In this context Soujutsu is "art of the spear", soujutsuka is best translated as "spear man/woman". The final character 家 (ka) in this case is sort of like putting "ist" at the end of a word in english that might describe a person's skill set (like illusionist). Thus the "literal" translation of soujutsuka is "spearist".
"Spearist" is really... wrong in English right? This is what you're doing in the other direction when you mash words together to create names like Yarijin, yes it has a meaning, but it's just off in ways that's going to make you stick out like a sore thumb among Raen NPCs.
Lancer is "soukihei", "yarikihei" is again shoving two words together that individually have meaning but is really awkward when forced together this way.
If you're fine with something that seems Japanese to a non-speaker, then it's fine to approach naming your Raen so haphazardly, but this topic is about assistance for following Au Ra Raen naming conventions, and that way is not the way to go about it.
You're absolutely correct, but allow me to justify myself nonetheless. I never claimed that this extreme oversimplification followed proper naming convention, and my intention was only to create something Japanese-sounding for non-Japanese speakers with blunt force trauma levels of literal meaning, correctness or awkwardness be damned. Creating a name that adheres to Raen naming conventions requires an very in-depth and accurate comprehension of the Japanese language, which I thoroughly established that I don't have, and is knowledge I suspect that the majority of forumgoers lack as well.
This slipshod attempt at oversimplifying the process down to a single constituent part--literal meaning--was because personally, I believe that the Raen naming conventions contain far too many nuances for English speakers to be able to accurately adhere to without simply reusing names from the past. Essentially, for English speakers there's no room for creativity or composition. Admittedly, my "method"--the word method being used generously in the same way that calling winning the jackpot lottery "a tad lucky" is generous--is hilariously incorrect, as using a period-accurate name generator or list and would be far more accurate, but as long as it sounds plausible to non-speakers and the meaning is relevant, I find it acceptable. In short, I don't particularly like it when people want to create meaning for their character but have to limit themselves to mashing name generators and hoping they get lucky. It's a silly and petty idea to propagate, I know, but still.
Anyway, to avoid derailing this, here is a resource is a resource I found that gives extensive detail to the construction of Mongolian names, with examples.
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - Yours Truly - 06-20-2015
(06-20-2015, 12:49 PM)Nero Wrote: This slipshod attempt at oversimplifying the process down to a single constituent part--literal meaning--was because personally, I believe that the Raen naming conventions contain far too many nuances for English speakers to be able to accurately adhere to without simply reusing names from the past.
You're not lying! The Raen conventions paint an interesting picture of their lore and I love the inherent poetry of their names, but it's definitely very challenging as a non-speaker. Japanese is complex and multifaceted enough that, in retrospect, my scatter-shot approach is a little embarrassing. Understanding the correlations and differences between the different writing styles, as well as how the words change in context and how they relate to English, is absolutely brain-melting to me.
I'm starting to realize that I'm genuinely out of my league here, haha. Since I'd still prefer to be as compliant with the conventions as possible, I think I'm just going to have to take allgivenover's suggestion: mash the generator and google the results until I find a combination that strikes my fancy.
Oh... and earlier, I found a website with a big list of various nature-related words and phrases if the OP is in need of any more Raen-related links: http://www.2hweb.net/haikai/renku/500ESWd.html
I'm completely unqualified to say how accurate it is but I actually noticed a few names from the official conventions in here, so it may be another decent place to start if you'd prefer to come up with your name independently of the generator.
EDIT: Another possible resource - http://www.issendai.com/japanese-courtesans/oiran-tayu-names.html
Though it's a list of "courtesan" names, many of them are appropriate to the Edo period with a fittingly poetic structure. Some of them are also from the Tale of Genji, which the existing Raen NPCs have borrowed a few names from.
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - Zhavi - 06-20-2015
If you want to construct a name using Middle Mongolian (which was used until the 17th century), this site is fucking fantastic.
It gives an etymological breakdown, like so:
Proto-Mongolian: *ab-
Altaic etymology: Altaic etymology
Meaning: to take
Russian meaning: брать
Written Mongolian: abi-, ab- (L 1,2), abu-
Middle Mongolian: abu (HY 39), ab- (SH), oba-, aba- (IM 432), abu- (MA 94, 97)
Khalkha: av-
Buriat: aba-, ab-
Kalmuck: aw-
Ordos: ab-, aw-
Dongxian: agi- (Тод. Дн. 110), uɣu- (MGCD) (?)
Baoan: ab- (Тод. Бн. 132), apÇ- (MGCD)
Dagur: aw- (Тод. Даг. 118)
Shary-Yoghur: ab-
Monguor: awu-, abu- (SM 16)
Mogol: afu-, ab-; ZM ɔ̄b- (24-6a, 41-1)
Comments: KW 19, MGCD 91. Cf. also abuÄa 'taking, handful' (KW 20).
http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=\data\alt\monget&first=1
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - Seraphine Felstar - 06-22-2015
The list of names is now updated. I'm keeping my eye out to see if any of the FFXIV name generators update with Au Ra names.
Thanks everyone for the great links and discussion~! Â Keep 'em coming.
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - Nero - 06-22-2015
(06-22-2015, 09:27 AM)Lianne Lacroix Wrote: The list of names is now updated. I'm keeping my eye out to see if any of the FFXIV name generators update with Au Ra names.
Thanks everyone for the great links and discussion~! Â Keep 'em coming.
Whoops, I just realised that the link I submitted was redundant. It's the exact same article as one already posted before, I just wasn't paying attention because the formatting of the website and the URL are different.
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - Azraela Moirai - 06-24-2015
Great and helpful thread, I do have a question however, I am semi new to RP and I love the Au Ra race, however this thread brought up a question for me. Would I be kind of shunned by serious RP players if I chose to go with a name from say a Greek, Latin decent? I would really love to get in to some good RP sessions and story lines but I don't want people to shy away because my name is not lore friendly enough I guess. I would sooner choose a different race that I could get away with a more common of name. Thank you for any feedback.
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - Martiallais - 06-24-2015
(06-24-2015, 09:39 AM)Azraela Moirai Wrote: Great and helpful thread, I do have a question however, I am semi new to RP and I love the Au Ra race, however this thread brought up a question for me. Would I be kind of shunned by serious RP players if I chose to go with a name from say a Greek, Latin decent? I would really love to get in to some good RP sessions and story lines but I don't want people to shy away because my name is not lore friendly enough I guess. I would sooner choose a different race that I could get away with a more common of name. Thank you for any feedback.
There's always reasons why characters deviate from the usual naming conventions and often these can be used to help show/say something about the character. It's a part of their story after all! As long as it's explained well when it comes up (maybe an alias or some other reason) most folks will shrug/nod and go along with it.
Like most everything in RP, it's all in the presentation.
Sure there's bound to be some who disagree with straying from the conventions, but there are enough RPers on the server that you'll be able to find folks who will mesh with/accept what you're looking to do.
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - allgivenover - 06-24-2015
(06-24-2015, 09:39 AM)Azraela Moirai Wrote: Great and helpful thread, I do have a question however, I am semi new to RP and I love the Au Ra race, however this thread brought up a question for me. Would I be kind of shunned by serious RP players if I chose to go with a name from say a Greek, Latin decent? I would really love to get in to some good RP sessions and story lines but I don't want people to shy away because my name is not lore friendly enough I guess. I would sooner choose a different race that I could get away with a more common of name. Thank you for any feedback.
Just write a reason for it and no one will care.
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - D'aito Kuji - 06-24-2015
There's plenty of people who come to a new land and decide (or it's decided for them) that their names are too difficult to pronounce or don't work with the dominant language and are then changed. Â There's no doubt that a few Au Ra would do such a thing.
RE: Au Ra Naming Assistance - Seraphine Felstar - 06-29-2015
The Au Ra I created is supposed to have a quirky personality and is a bit of an outsider, so its within the scope of the character to be different. She decided to go with a nickname that is easier for Eorzeans to remember and pronounce. However, I did give her a traditional birth name on her character sheet so she does have one that adheres to lore if it happens to come up in RP. I'd say if you have a good reason for it ICly then it shouldn't be a problem.