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+--- Thread: Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion! (/showthread.php?tid=11291)
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens! - FreelanceWizard - 04-28-2015
(04-28-2015, 06:11 PM)Hyrist Wrote: We've got two places to post Character Creation Screenshots, but both run the risk of getting siderailed by the discussion of opinions regarding design choices for Au Ra.
I'm no moderator, but perhaps we can combine the SS threads and make a thread specifically for discussing Au Ra design as a development concept?
Conceptually, I'd like to see a thread for character screenshots (which I think we have) and a thread for discussing the design (which I think this kinda-sorta mostly is
). I can move some character screenshots out of this thread and into the other one, but given the size of both threads, that's a very delicate operation.So, if you want your character screenshot moved into the other thread, report the post and note that desire, and we'll get it moved over for you. I've edited the title of this thread accordingly.
#magicAdminHat
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens! - allgivenover - 04-28-2015
(04-28-2015, 06:12 PM)Naunet Wrote: This thread wasn't made for people to post their Au Ra screenshots. It was originally made to discuss the benchmark "screenshots" that were taken last week during a demonstration of it. So, no thread merge necessary IMO.
A clarification in thread titles would probably help.
[youtube]hou0lU8WMgo[/youtube]
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens! - Hyrist - 04-28-2015
Ah. I stand corrected then.
Design wise, I have no qualms. I, like others, expected that perhaps the horns were a feature separate from the face. But as the horns themselves are a kind of major facial structure, I can understand the reasoning.
There will always be the desire to want 'more' out of things.
The design concepts and works fit within the context of the game, and its artistic style. Too bestial, and they literally become a beast-men race. At this point, they skirt that line enough not to.
I realize this disappoints a number of individuals who prefer more Western-inspired design choices - however Square Enix has made some pretty cut-and-dry definition choices between Beast Tribes and the more 'human' tribes.
Au Ra may be the last race we get, and if not, I do not expect any future races to stray much further from human than Au Ra has.
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion! - Zyrusticae - 04-28-2015
(04-28-2015, 03:21 PM)SessionZero Wrote: By and large (with a few exceptions), RPers are the only ones who care about a superbly robust creation system.This is factually incorrect. If this were true, games like Blade & Soul would never get the kind of creation tools they give the player base (because the grand majority of Korean players do not engage in any kind of roleplaying).
The rest of your post all goes back to my point about the design of the female Au Ra simply cannibalizing players of existing races. It feels incredibly pointless.
But what's done is done. Hopefully next time they won't be so bloody disappointing.
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion! - SessionZero - 04-28-2015
(04-28-2015, 08:26 PM)Zyrusticae Wrote:(04-28-2015, 03:21 PM)SessionZero Wrote: By and large (with a few exceptions), RPers are the only ones who care about a superbly robust creation system.This is factually incorrect. If this were true, games like Blade & Soul would never get the kind of creation tools they give the player base (because the grand majority of Korean players do not engage in any kind of roleplaying).
The rest of your post all goes back to my point about the design of the female Au Ra simply cannibalizing players of existing races. It feels incredibly pointless.
But what's done is done. Hopefully next time they won't be so bloody disappointing.
>(with a few exceptions)
>a few exceptions
>few exceptions
>exceptions
Also, for something to be factually incorrect, it requires a fact to prove it is, in fact, incorrect. Citing one game with a robust character creation system is not a fact.
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion! - Naunet - 04-29-2015
(04-28-2015, 11:43 PM)SessionZero Wrote: >(with a few exceptions)
>a few exceptions
>few exceptions
>exceptions
I don't think those exceptions are quite so few as you seem to believe. One of the hottest topics in any beta forum for an MMO is character creation, and it's almost always people asking for more options, more customization. Hardly any of those people are roleplayers. There are tons of games out there with far more advanced character creation than FFXIV, and those games didn't develop that with RPers in mind I can guarantee you. People, regardless of whether or not they roleplay, like to be able to customize their in-game avatar to fit whatever image they want.
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion! - Zyrusticae - 04-29-2015
(04-28-2015, 11:43 PM)SessionZero Wrote: >(with a few exceptions)Aion?
>a few exceptions
>few exceptions
>exceptions
Also, for something to be factually incorrect, it requires a fact to prove it is, in fact, incorrect. Citing one game with a robust character creation system is not a fact.
APB?
EVE Online?
Dragon's Dogma (lol, game isn't even multiplayer)?
Soul Calibur IV & V?
Saints Row The Third & IV?
Phantasy Star Online 2?
More recently, Black Desert Online?
I can forgive you your ignorance, because it seems you just don't follow very many games, but I assure you that deep character creation is not something built specifically to appeal to RPers or is niche and does, in fact, have a sort of mass appeal that FFXIV's simplistic character creation lacks. Hell, PSO2 itself is the poster child for a game where dress-up is basically half the game, what with the scratch being updated something on the order of every 2 weeks with new outfits, accessories, emotes, voice options, makeup, and so on - all stuff just to allow players to customize their characters more. How many Japanese players do you think are roleplaying in that lobby-based action co-op RPG? (Ironically, said action RPG actually has more options supporting roleplaying than any other game I can think of off the top of my head...)
At this point, Square Enix has little excuse. Their character creation is just bad, especially if you directly compare it to some of the newer competition and even some non-MMORPG games. They need to do a lot of work if they really want to snare all the players they possibly can.
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion! - Fox - 04-29-2015
Can we stop with the personal attacks and passive aggressiveness/snark? It's going to get this thread closed. I swear any time this race is even spoken about in a thread it starts getting completely derailed. It's not even about Au Ra now. It's completely shifted into other games and character creators rather than the actual topic. :/ I would like to continue to contribute to this, but it seems that so many threads that are interesting at the beginning end up going down this road lately.
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion! - SessionZero - 04-29-2015
(04-29-2015, 01:16 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote: I can forgive you your ignorance, because it seems you just don't follow very many games
And I will forgive you your assumptions, but would greatly encourage you to watch your wording and think about how you might be coming off to others, lest people start to think you are part of the problem that's been plaguing the RPC lately.
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion! - Zyrusticae - 04-29-2015
(04-29-2015, 01:31 AM)SessionZero Wrote:Well, that's not terribly helpful.(04-29-2015, 01:16 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote: I can forgive you your ignorance, because it seems you just don't follow very many games
And I will forgive you your assumptions, but would greatly encourage you to watch your wording and think about how you might be coming off to others, lest people start to think you are part of the problem that's been plaguing the RPC lately.
I suppose it's worth noting that ignorance itself is not necessarily a negative trait, but rather something that simply "is". However, when you make blind assertions that are so easily provably wrong, I have to wonder how much investment is even worth putting into this conversation. It doesn't help when you seem to possess so much self-righteous conviction, to the point of condescendingly putting excessive emphasis on a single phrase that doesn't even help your case.
But Foxberry is right, and unfortunately my tone is also less than ideal when it comes to things I am passionate about, so for that, I do apologize. My point remains the same regardless - a huge part of the problem with the Au Ra in my mind can be traced directly to the weak character creation. I strongly suggest checking out the character creation of the games I mentioned for reference as to what good character creation actually looks like, and just how common it has become.
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion! - SessionZero - 04-29-2015
(04-29-2015, 01:51 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote:(04-29-2015, 01:31 AM)SessionZero Wrote:Well, that's not terribly helpful.(04-29-2015, 01:16 AM)Zyrusticae Wrote: I can forgive you your ignorance, because it seems you just don't follow very many games
And I will forgive you your assumptions, but would greatly encourage you to watch your wording and think about how you might be coming off to others, lest people start to think you are part of the problem that's been plaguing the RPC lately.
I suppose it's worth noting that ignorance itself is not necessarily a negative trait, but rather something that simply "is". However, when you make blind assertions that are so easily provably wrong, I have to wonder how much investment is even worth putting into this conversation. It doesn't help when you seem to possess so much self-righteous conviction, to the point of condescendingly putting excessive emphasis on a single phrase that doesn't even help your case.
But Foxberry is right, Â and unfortunately my tone is also less than ideal when it comes to things I am passionate about, so for that, I do apologize. My point remains the same regardless - a huge part of the problem with the Au Ra in my mind can be traced directly to the weak character creation. I strongly suggest checking out the character creation of the games I mentioned for reference as to what good character creation actually looks like, and just how common it has become.
First of all, you accusing me of condescension is laughably ironic. Second of all, despite your assumptions, I have played every game you listed save Aion and Phantasy Star 2. In fact, Dragon's Dogma is one of my favorite games.
That said, a robust character creator does not a good game make. I can forgive FFXIV's comparable lack of options because the rest of the game is fantastic and there's still enough customization that relatively unique characters are a possibility. APB, EVE, Soul Calibur, and BDO can throw all the frilly customization options they want at me, it's not going to make them playable games, or make me think they're worth my time.
Bottom line is, if you don't like the Au Ra, don't make one. It's a simple concept that does not require so much negativity and snark directed at the people who actually like what we were given, or, god forbid, have a favorable/neutral opinion on the whole thing.
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion! - Cato - 04-29-2015
I wouldn't be opposed to a more in-depth character creation but I feel as though it'd be largely wasted on FFXIV's community. You need only look at how rare Elezen and Roegadyn are. I would love more variety in terms of faces though - and more idle poses to help reflect a character's personality better.
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion! - Hyrist - 04-29-2015
Square Enix makes no qualms about its style. In many ways, and in many explanations, it has made statements to the effect that it is not in the same league as many of its competitors, and its true when you consider the blow factors.
- The FFXIV Team is an in-house development team with its own Publisher (Square Enix) It is only beholden to its direct investors, that invest in the company, not the project. This allows it to preserve a bit of artistic and stylistic agency. This is apparent in a lot of its development choices, including maintaining its Pay-to-Play model.
- FFXIV host a rather robust back-up system. The character data is backed up to the storage drives at a rate higher than most MMOs on average. The side effect to this, is of sourced the heightened processing load for each amount of character data that's backed up. A lot of MMOs sacrifice that micro-level of stability for the sake of saving processor power.
- FFXIV is one of rare MMOs to ever venture multiplatform. This comes at its own cost - concern for load times on Consoles as well as preserving an equivalent experience across them.
Each game, and each developer and Publisher comes with its Pros and Cons. In terms of Au Ra design, and any design feature in this game, you are going to be dealing with typical Square Enix tropes. Which, in my opinion, happen to be quite better than most companies (Blizzard, EA, NCSoft all come with sticking points with me that push me away from many of their games.) It's a matter of 'what you can accept' as often discussing the issue on a conscious design choice by Square Enix rarely nets change, and airing such reservations habitually only serves to disturb those who find or are attempting to find contentment in the provided content.
It's ok to push for improvements, just be wary of how, and how hard. In Square Enix's case, it's also 'where' that becomes a consideration.
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If I may speak on a matter of personal opinion - I actually find it more enthralling to see what players do with limited resources in Character Creator, than the massive character creation systems on par with Aion.
When there is so much variety, the attention to subtle differences are often lost in favor of something that is extremely variant or referential. Where as with a limited character creation I often find that people focus on trying to create something that is both unique and comfortable, bringing out the attention to detail (such as clothing, accessories, makeup, etc.) that emphasis ownership of the character.
But that is simply a personal impression. Other people's experience may vastly differ. But in spite of the initial thrill of having an extensive character creator to play with (which I often tinker with in single player games a lot) I often feel much more fulfilled and comfortable with the more limited, yet still variant options I get from FFXIV's character creator.
Often when make a character with FFXIV's creator, I'm pretty happy once I've finalized my decision, where in contrast, I've had to go back a couple times in Dragon Age Inquisition because my initially 'unique' face just didn't settle well with me in the long term.
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion! - ArmachiA - 04-29-2015
Yo, if you don't want SE to make characters that are glorified Miqote, stop rolling Miqote.
There, problem solved.
The playerbase did this to themselves.
RE: Au Ra Character Creation Screens discussion! - Qhora Bajihri - 04-29-2015
(04-29-2015, 02:09 AM)SessionZero Wrote: Bottom line is, if you don't like the Au Ra, don't make one. It's a simple concept that does not require so much negativity and snark directed at the people who actually like what we were given, or, god forbid, have a favorable/neutral opinion on the whole thing.
I'm of the "not a huge fan" crowd and won't be rolling one. I played with the character creator and just wasn't into it. To me, they all look the same, and the screenshots thread just proves it in my mind. You see one female and one male, you've seen all of the entire race, excepting slight variations in color palette and hair length. I also find that's true of all not-Hyur, thank you clan differentiation. However, I find most of the racial designs appealing, so I'm happy to see them copy-pasted and recolored all over the world. It's delightful.
Despite my shrugging over the new race, I am pleasantly surprised by how passionately the people who do love them absolutely adore them, and how many of those people there are. That makes me think SE definitely got something right in their core design of the race, no matter my own aesthetic tastes, and I'll be happy to see lots of them in-game being played by people who love playing them. I'm sure that quality will shine through as exuberance, at least until the newness wears off.