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+--- Thread: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread (/showthread.php?tid=19397)
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Zhavi - 05-18-2017
(05-18-2017, 04:56 PM)EliBallard Wrote: *Sits with his 8 characters on Balmung, surrounded by other RPers as far as the eye can see, gazing down from his tower at the throngs who desperately want to be a part of that community. Ignores the fact that MMOs like all games are a fickle business and first impressions are incredibly important, and that some people have friends that were trying to get on the server.* Heh. This will be good for them. All they have to do is be patient or make their own RP server! People need to stop whining and expecting the company they pay to consider them! Hohohoho!
This is the beginning of the snark, the competition, the us vs them.
It does no one any good.
Believe me or not, once this type of thinking, or these feelings, really get rolling, they don't stop. They continue, and they fester, and it turns into a nasty case of community vs community rather than a whole that looks to the benefits of everyone.
Many people have felt that people having to pay $18 to get into Balmung was not good. I have friends that I paid for to get on, because the financial burden was not one they were willing to shoulder. Having options lends itself to longevity. No one asked for this. But now that it is happening, best to make of it what we can.
There are people with full 8 slots on Balmung who are willing to transfer a few off, if not make alts. Beginning to mock those who do not wish to doesn't change a single thing, and only serves to make the server you're backing not seem quite as friendly.
Take a breath, man.
We care.
Trust me on that.
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Fox - 05-18-2017
(05-18-2017, 05:08 PM)Zhavi Wrote:(05-18-2017, 04:56 PM)EliBallard Wrote: *Sits with his 8 characters on Balmung, surrounded by other RPers as far as the eye can see, gazing down from his tower at the throngs who desperately want to be a part of that community. Ignores the fact that MMOs like all games are a fickle business and first impressions are incredibly important, and that some people have friends that were trying to get on the server.* Heh. This will be good for them. All they have to do is be patient or make their own RP server! People need to stop whining and expecting the company they pay to consider them! Hohohoho!
This is the beginning of the snark, the competition, the us vs them.
It does no one any good.
Believe me or not, once this type of thinking, or these feelings, really get rolling, they don't stop. They continue, and they fester, and it turns into a nasty case of community vs community rather than a whole that looks to the benefits of everyone.
Many people have felt that people having to pay $18 to get into Balmung was not good. I have friends that I paid for to get on, because the financial burden was not one they were willing to shoulder. Having options lends itself to longevity. No one asked for this. But now that it is happening, best to make of it what we can.
There are people with full 8 slots on Balmung who are willing to transfer a few off, if not make alts. Beginning to mock those who do not wish to doesn't change a single thing, and only serves to make the server you're backing not seem quite as friendly.
Take a breath, man.
We care.
Trust me on that.
Not to mention a lot of us have been on Balmung (or Besaid or whichever was merged into it) from the beginning; 1.0. It's very difficult to pull up roots and move on. You even see this IRL; where people refuse to move from places because that's what they know and have always known. It's a very scary feeling for people.
Majority of people I have seen posting on RPC and even on the official forums are trying very hard to help other people. I don't see the point of this sort of derisive behavior myself either.
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Val - 05-18-2017
(05-18-2017, 04:56 PM)EliBallard Wrote: *Sits with his 8 characters on Balmung, surrounded by other RPers as far as the eye can see, gazing down from his tower at the throngs who desperately want to be a part of that community. Ignores the fact that MMOs like all games are a fickle business and first impressions are incredibly important, and that some people have friends that were trying to get on the server.* Heh. This will be good for them. All they have to do is be patient or make their own RP server! People need to stop whining and expecting the company they pay to consider them! Hohohoho!
Do uh. Do you want a hug or something, man? You seem awfully distraught about something. Maybe you should take a step back and take a break and stop being so mad.
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Kylin - 05-18-2017
(05-18-2017, 04:56 PM)EliBallard Wrote: *Sits with his 8 characters on Balmung, surrounded by other RPers as far as the eye can see, gazing down from his tower at the throngs who desperately want to be a part of that community. Ignores the fact that MMOs like all games are a fickle business and first impressions are incredibly important, and that some people have friends that were trying to get on the server.* Heh. This will be good for them. All they have to do is be patient or make their own RP server! People need to stop whining and expecting the company they pay to consider them! Hohohoho!
This attitude is getting glaringly annoying. Why do people insist of demonizing people just for being realistic and trying to focus on solutions? Nobody who agrees with the lockout is saying "screw you" to newbies. Nobody. If anything, I'd argue the opposite. The people wanting more people in Balmung are the ones saying "eff you" to the newbies. What do you think happens to all those new people who immigrate in day after day? Are you there on the server to greet them personally and give them a tour when they become completely overwhelmed? No? Most of them are struggling. Not all, but most. How many big events do you go to and actually observe what happens? Did you go to the last Grindstone? Did you by chance pay attention to some of the people sitting on the sidelines trying to figure out who to contact to get involved or how to approach someone? Did you see as these individuals quietly got up and left without a word, their very existence not once acknowledged? This happens daily at every single large event. There are too many people and it's impossible for people to pay attention to them all and get them the attention they rightfully deserve. For all the love people claim to have for new RPers, they sure don't focus on retention strategies. It's all about "new blood, new blood, new blood!" And then nobody knows what to even do with the new blood.
So you can demonize us all you want and say we're being 'selfish.' But I'd argue the exact opposite. It goes right back to the whole buffet thing. People want all this food, but won't eat it. And guess what? That food can't wait around 4-6 months for someone to suddenly get a craving for it. It needs attention NOW or it spoils. That was the whole point of my analogy. The gluttony is just astounding.
FFXI had several tiny RP communities scattered across different servers and they mostly survived for over a decade. A freaking decade. And guess what? They weren't focused on 'new blood onry' strategies. They survived because they knew how to retain what they already had. New blood was scarce for them. So this whole mentality that the RP community MUST HAVE NEW BLOOD is a farce. I like new blood. Everyone likes new blood. But Balmung does not need it in its current condition! Out of 50 new blood people, we're lucky if even 10 of them are actually retained. Nobody notices it though because the immigration is so high that the next wave of immigrants quickly drowns out those who couldn't find a niche and vanished into the lifestream or wherever they went.
There are RPers out there who NEED attention. They need their existence acknowledged. Bringing in more people does not help with that. Gilgamesh was the one and only fully organized attempt to give another big alternative. It initially succeeded in spades. It failed later on for a variety of different reasons, and many of these reasons are no longer an issue with this new attempt.
For the record: I have 8 characters on Balmung. I'm giving serious consideration to giving Mateus a second chance and going back full time if the community is capable or rallying behind it. So I don't want to hear the accusation of me having mine on Balmung and not caring about those trying to get on.
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Parvacake - 05-18-2017
A lot of people need to keep in mind that most other games HAVE multiple RP servers or groups save for those MMOs who aren't large enough to have more than one. WoW, for example, has MG and WrA as their primary RP server and both have beneficial communities that meet the needs of different people.
Balmung, as it stands, is FF14's only 'main' RP server and it's a game that's been growing so much that it needs at least a second or even a third server that is consistent. Gilgamesh is somewhat of a runner-up but even then I see more people going to much smaller servers such as Mateus or Exodus.Â
The numbers alone show that SE is doing this because it is a necessity. Yes, people are going to whine and complain about it and yes it does suck royal donkey balls. But it's obviously overtaxed and overworked as a server so something has to give.Â
To those who are saying how utterly unfair it is: rather than drag your heels, try being a positive contributor towards making those smaller communities more vibrant. Make an alt to play with friends on lower pop servers where you don't have to wait forever or pay for a transfer just to make a character. If you're tired of Balmung? Grab some friends who are sick of the same, find a place, and go for it.
Yes, Balmung has the benefit of being more solidified in terms of community. But you know how it got that way? People deciding on a place to go and then working at turning that place into a locale for RPers and PvErs. It requires work. It requires patience. Will it be easy? No.
But nothing will happen if people don't stop wailing enough in their self-entitledness to take that much needed first step.
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Leggerless - 05-18-2017
(05-18-2017, 04:56 PM)Kage Wrote: The lock will take more than a few months. Balmung and Gilgamesh essentially needs to half what it is currently.
So, if you look at these images we have one of the last unofficial census data taken from the lodestone. Based off whether or not there were changes in lodestone data along with minion obtainment from the MSQ. It’s not precise but it’s a good approximation.
North America had 2 Worlds locked indefinitely for character creation and transfers: Balmung and Gilgamesh. Balmung has over 13k active players and Gilgamesh is at 11k. The third highest is Leviathan at 7.2k. Balmung is nearly DOUBLE the third populated. Some worlds are as low as 3k to 2k.
Japan’s four worlds locked were Bahamut (9.2k), Chocobo (10.2k), Mandragora (7.2k) and Shinryu (9.9k). Tonberry is 7.7k. My surprise is Tonberry not being closed.
EU is getting new worlds. Unconfirmed how many. But look at the near even distribution. 6 of 8 worlds are at 7-8k while the other two are 4.5k
![[Image: tumblr_inline_oq61p0JFgj1qgbh9m_1280.png]](https://68.media.tumblr.com/0d43c69f36856e9dd56e99018e6c95de/tumblr_inline_oq61p0JFgj1qgbh9m_1280.png)
![[Image: tumblr_inline_oq61ozdG8H1qgbh9m_1280.png]](https://68.media.tumblr.com/e9c6f3dad4f3a61f45f6515a3b5e9610/tumblr_inline_oq61ozdG8H1qgbh9m_1280.png)
![[Image: tumblr_inline_oq61oyfqh01qgbh9m_1280.png]](https://68.media.tumblr.com/5ca664e5ca587ad89e89efc3a350865b/tumblr_inline_oq61oyfqh01qgbh9m_1280.png)
![[Image: Thanks.gif]](http://d236bkdxj385sg.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Thanks.gif)
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Nero - 05-18-2017
First things first, please keep the tone civil. Disagreements are fine, disagreements via insults are not.
One point that's been glossed over is the lack of warning. A lot of the controversy is rooted in the fact that people were completely blindsided by the restrictions. And you could argue that Balmung has been character restricted for forever, but I don't think it's fair to say "you should have seen this coming" when transfers to Balmung have remained available since 2.0 released way back in 2013 and there has never been any indication of impending population control otherwise.
Regardless of whether you are for or against the restriction, it's a pretty shitty brand of band-aid damage control no matter what way you spin it, especially since it doesn't seem that Square Enix is willing or able (bets on the latter that they're making this up as they go along in the wake of the impending expansion) to announce the details of the transfers to soften the blow that is the restrictions.
Now with that said, I'll continue to be really annoying about the solution: the creation of a new server that is specifically designated as RP, and free transfers with no loss of assets.
There's no such thing as a perfect solution, no, but the crux of this issue is the lack of segregation between RPers and non-RPers. Balmung already had a fairly prevalent population due to being a Legacy server merged between Besaid and Fabul, and the growth of the RP community has only grown since then. I'm willing to wager that the RP community comprises of up to a third of Balmung's active population, if not more.
In the wake of things like megaservers and cross-realm zoning, roleplay is one of the only activities in an MMO that majorly depends on players sharing the same in-game space. Things like PVE is easy enough to facilitate with cross-server tech and the prevalence of software like Discord. Creating a new server specifically to facilitate that need for roleplayers to share the same in-game space would alleviate the biggest issue with splitting the RP community.
In addition, a new server would also facilitate the retention of important property, most notably houses.
As many others before me have stated, it takes a decent population for it to become self-sustaining and reaching that population is an uphill battle. I think it'd be great for a new server to be able to combine at least the NA RP population so that fragmentation would be limited, though I know the issue is a beast of a different nature for EU given that they have to deal with ping.
Of course it's unfeasible to expect everyone to transfer off of Balmung, but that's not really the purpose of the solution anyway. The purpose of this solution is to provide a centralised hub of roleplayers that's not population restricted, for people who want a centralised hub.
I'll paraphrase one of my older statements by saying that people who want to roleplay on the largest roleplaying community should have the option of roleplaying on the largest community. The Balmung restriction completely neuters that option without providing a feasible alternative. And yes, I'm aware that free transfers will be incentivised eventually, but part of my issue with this is that Square Enix either wasn't able or wasn't willing to produce a viable solution in simultaneous conjunction with the restriction. It's the equivalent of changing the locks to an apartment building and forgetting that you have the only key.
So hopefully a year from now we'll be able to comment on this event wistfully. If a new designated RP server is created with adequate transfer guarantees, I will be more than willing to support RPers moving there away from Balmung so that there'll be a healthy community on both sides.
EDIT: In addition, demographics exist and they matter. While I get that they overlap between, say, PVErs, PVPers, RPers, whatever, ignoring that there's an observable divide is not the best attitude either.
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Faye - 05-18-2017
Unless you are giving "the company you pay" enough money to magically double the size and strength of the servers, I think we could afford to be a little realistic here, whether we're looking down from our regal Balmung throne of eight characters or not.
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Literal-Ghost - 05-18-2017
(05-18-2017, 04:56 PM)EliBallard Wrote: *Sits with his 8 characters on Balmung, surrounded by other RPers as far as the eye can see, gazing down from his tower at the throngs who desperately want to be a part of that community. Ignores the fact that MMOs like all games are a fickle business and first impressions are incredibly important, and that some people have friends that were trying to get on the server.* Heh. This will be good for them. All they have to do is be patient or make their own RP server! People need to stop whining and expecting the company they pay to consider them! Hohohoho!Will you stop being so darn obtuse with this trash anytime someone rolled on Balmung says something you don't like?
Server's too damn full. That's the long and short of it. Some of us who are saying the solution is to set up shop on anothrt server actually are considering moving and not just sitting around where it's crowded, but confortable. Hell, I personally rolled an alt on Jenova just yesterday to see what things are like out there.
Jeez, man, it's been 2 days and this over reactionary crap is so stupidly unhelpful.
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Kilieit - 05-18-2017
If I had to sum up my overall advice / opinion, I'd do it thusly. To be clear, these are not things I think will or won't happen. They're just things I personally happen to think should happen.
• We need an alternative, moderately-sized, many-leader community. A choice of small communities isn't a bad thing but I am not talking about small communities here. Small communities are not a like-for-like alternative to large communities. They are their own thing. They are not everyone's cup of tea. If I was starting tomorrow and small communities were the only option, I would be quitting. Because Balmung's closure is essentially indefinite, we need to create something for the people who would otherwise go to Balmung. That is the core problem: A valid Balmung alternative does not exist. There needs to be one.
• As well, not instead. This isn't about what style of community better and what is worse, who is doing what, who "deserves" what, or whose fault any of this is. It is about creating a parallel alternative to what has been locked - both for the inherent merit of having a choice between similar communities, and for the benefit of people who were just plain old too late to get into Balmung for whatever reason. Getting into tit-for-tat, acting like one side is inherently "better" than the other, like people are trying to "take things away" either from Balmung or from small communities, like people do or don't "deserve" things in return for other things... is the breeding ground for resentment, antithesis to cooperation, and not what we need to be focussing on if we want to succeed. As I explained in my cautionary tale, doing things with spite in your heart poisons them.
• Together. In order to achieve any of this, people will need to start placing aside their immediate concerns and seriously look at what they can and cannot contribute. This cannot rest on the shoulders of one person, or even five people. It will fail if it does - if not now, then in 6 or 12 months' time. For it to work in the long run, every person reading this thread must individually look at what they can do, and actively volunteer their assistance where appropriate.
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Val - 05-18-2017
The idea of a new server would be great. The idea of them making a new server specifically labelled RP would be absolutely fantastic, but I doubt they would ever facilitate moving servers without losing assets. You'd have to accommodate for all people moving from many servers to one place and hope that none of them have overlapping assets (housing plots, FC names, etc). The name thing is a shot in the dark, but the housing plots is a very large possibility, especially with Balmung being maxed.
But the alternative isn't better either. Say they open transfers and day one people transfer over and rush to housing. The only option they'd have (imo) is to open the server, wait a couple of months to open housing at all, then let the people rush to get it. And even then, people aren't guaranteed housing. FCs that have mansions/estates could suddenly be left without. It'd be an awful situation.
I do agree that not announcing it is probably one of the worst things about this. Had people had some sort of leeway, they'd have known to transfer before. I actually have friends that were planning on transferring over for Stormblood, but now they can't. Rather than fussing and complaining about it, I recognize that it is A.) for the greater good of the server itself and B.) there is absolutely nothing I can do about it anyway, so bitching and moaning (not saying you are, just some people obviously love to take the opportunity to whine) about it isn't going to change anything.
It's best to approach these situations with a calm and collected mind and look at how to improve things over time rather than lashing out in anger at anyone or anything that doesn't agree with you, whether it's for personal reasons or not. Not only does it help the transition, but it further facilitates the change and makes the community look good as a whole.
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Fox - 05-18-2017
(05-18-2017, 05:36 PM)Nero Wrote: <snip>
I can understand where this is coming from. But even if they could increase and what not; as Kylin pointed out there's a lot of concerns already with very large events where many new folks can't even get too involved because it's so massive. I think Kylin did a really good job addressing this; but I'm sure you've read it. Just wanted to bring it up because I do think his points have merit.
This also said about the "abrupt closure"; I read somewhere I don't know if it was on the RPC or the official forums; it is suspected because if they did inform and say "Hey guys we're shutting down the server in a week" there would be an even more of a massive increase of population just before the game launches for SB; as a massive rush of people would freak and transfer. Further; I do believe that SE has always said that people really shouldn't transfer into full realms. They tried to convey this verbally. I think we've sort of hit the block at this point unfortunately. They also said that they still reserved the right to call down on the refusal of transfers I believe as well. I'll need to do some ol' research to confirm this entirely. Do I think it should have been handled better? Yes; of course. But it's something to consider.
And another person in this thread also pointed out many other games have multiple servers. I think it's doable honestly. And I will be likely rolling an alt on Mateus as well. I just personally can't rip myself off of "Besaid" entirely.
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Nero - 05-18-2017
(05-18-2017, 05:46 PM)Foxberry Wrote:(05-18-2017, 05:36 PM)Nero Wrote: <snip>
I can understand where this is coming from. But even if they could increase and what not; as Kylin pointed out there's a lot of concerns already with very large events where many new folks can't even get too involved because it's so massive.
I understand the idea behind those concerns, but I also feel that that's sort of a separate issue entirely and therefore not terribly relevant; I'm a bit confused as to why it keeps being brought up. New people being unable to make new contacts at huge RP events doesn't mean huge RP events--and by extension, large RP populations--are inherently stifling, it's just that the difficulty of making yourself known is inversely proportional to the amount of people. If a person is seeking smaller-group and more intimately involved roleplay, then I don't particularly have any idea as to why they're seeking such a thing at huge RP events anyway as opposed to making OOC connections first or initiating connections on a smaller scale.
Again, the goal of a centralised RP hub is choice: if people want to immerse themselves in the largest RP community for whatever reason, then I believe they should have that choice. I personally want to be in the largest RP community because I enjoy being around large populations and there being a lot of people to meet. Even if I never interact with anyone new for years, I would still prefer to be around a larger community of relatively like-minded people than a smaller one.
(05-18-2017, 05:45 PM)Val Wrote: The idea of a new server would be great. The idea of them making a new server specifically labelled RP would be absolutely fantastic, but I doubt they would ever facilitate moving servers without losing assets. You'd have to accommodate for all people moving from many servers to one place and hope that none of them have overlapping assets (housing plots, FC names, etc). The name thing is a shot in the dark, but the housing plots is a very large possibility, especially with Balmung being maxed.
But the alternative isn't better either. Say they open transfers and day one people transfer over and rush to housing. The only option they'd have (imo) is to open the server, wait a couple of months to open housing at all, then let the people rush to get it. And even then, people aren't guaranteed housing. FCs that have mansions/estates could suddenly be left without. It'd be an awful situation.
I get these concerns too, and they're valid.
I would like to explain why I'm tentatively hopeful towards the viability of a new server though.
Gilgamesh is full just because it has a lot of people, understandable, not really much you can do about that.
However, Balmung is full because it has two full servers' worth comprising of two broad demographics: RPers and non-RPers. I understand that demographics overlap heavily, but they are still meaningful in population.
I think the ideal solution would be the creation of a new server, and only limit that server to transfers from Balmung for like, the first week or so, or something. That way, all Balmung assets are preserved, including exact locations of housing plots (ideally). If you're Square Enix, your goal is to stabilise the populations of Balmung and Gilgamesh. Stabilising the population of Balmung in a non-stupid way would require addressing its noticeably different demographic, and I highly doubt that non-RPers would go to the trouble of exploiting such an incentive.
And yeah, I guess you can call me a twat for advocating for some form of RPer-favoritism but isn't there a mutual benefit to such a thing? Part of why the Balmung Housing Rush exists is because RPers and non-RPers are competing with one another. Remove that factor, and I'm willing to wager that the housing market would be a bit steadier on both servers.
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Val - 05-18-2017
(05-18-2017, 06:05 PM)Nero Wrote:(05-18-2017, 05:45 PM)Val Wrote: The idea of a new server would be great. The idea of them making a new server specifically labelled RP would be absolutely fantastic, but I doubt they would ever facilitate moving servers without losing assets. You'd have to accommodate for all people moving from many servers to one place and hope that none of them have overlapping assets (housing plots, FC names, etc). The name thing is a shot in the dark, but the housing plots is a very large possibility, especially with Balmung being maxed.
But the alternative isn't better either. Say they open transfers and day one people transfer over and rush to housing. The only option they'd have (imo) is to open the server, wait a couple of months to open housing at all, then let the people rush to get it. And even then, people aren't guaranteed housing. FCs that have mansions/estates could suddenly be left without. It'd be an awful situation.
I get these concerns too, and they're valid.
I would like to explain why I'm tentatively hopeful towards the viability of a new server though.
Gilgamesh is full just because it has a lot of people, understandable, not really much you can do about that.
However, Balmung is full because it has two full servers' worth comprising of two broad demographics: RPers and non-RPers. I understand that demographics overlap heavily, but they are still meaningful in population.
I think the ideal solution would be the creation of a new server, and only limit that server to transfers from Balmung for like, the first week or so, or something. That way, all Balmung assets are preserved, including exact locations of housing plots (ideally). If you're Square Enix, your goal is to stabilise the populations of Balmung and Gilgamesh. Stabilising the population of Balmung in a non-stupid way would require addressing its noticeably different demographic, and I highly doubt that non-RPers would go to the trouble of exploiting such an incentive.
And yeah, I guess you can call me a twat for advocating for some form of RPer-favoritism but isn't there a mutual benefit to such a thing? Part of why the Balmung Housing Rush exists is because RPers and non-RPers are competing with one another. Remove that factor, and I'm willing to wager that the housing market would be a bit steadier on both servers.
I could see that being pretty ideal, and it would help the economy on both servers as well. But then the problem lies with SE. While I enjoy what Yoshi and his team have been doing with the game and respect them, I don't trust SE to do the right things assuming the option is going to be left up to them. I feel like they would just give it a "first come first serve" basis and let people fend for themselves. Which kind of sucks, but I expect nothing more than that.
RE: Balmung Transfer Restriction Megathread - Nero - 05-18-2017
Ugh, unfortunately I acknowledge that the biggest flaw with my ideal solution is Square Enix. I mean really, what can you expect out of a company that made three Final Fantasy XIII games? Christ.