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+---- Thread: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Rules for Event 2 in first post) (/showthread.php?tid=7548)
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - Austurmax Laforet - 07-14-2014
On the issue of consequences for the collared. I'd like to remind people that even of those collared, quite a few didn't actually help with the poisoning or the diversion. For example Kiht threw her fight and got Sleeped immediately rather than actually fight the good guys. Others like Coatleque were simply not used.
I'd encourage everyone to react ICly as they will, but I'd stop short of saying everyone who has ever been collared forfeits their character or is a bad rper.
That being said, Laforet has taken great pains to hide his connection to this as best he can, but if you can ICly figure it out and corner him I always accept consequences, whether they be death or what have you.
The important thing though is everyone relax, have fun, and enjoy the ride.
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - Kage - 07-14-2014
Got that right.
Also, for clarifications, is Goblet considered within the city or.. not?
So is all of Goblet's water actually contaminated too like said before? Because I still RP goblet mainly as out of Ul'dah physical vicinity.
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - Melkire - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 03:44 PM)ExKage Wrote: Got that right.
Also, for clarifications, is Goblet considered within the city or.. not?
So is all of Goblet's water actually contaminated too like said before? Because I still RP goblet mainly as out of Ul'dah physical vicinity.
...the Goblet is directly connected to Ul'dah via a passageway by the Miner's Guild. That's really close, vicinity-wise, if not a part of.
I feel the need to state the above because, um, I ran into some people who didn't know that that entrance existed... yeah.
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - Aya - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 03:43 PM)Austurmax Laforet Wrote: I'd encourage everyone to react ICly as they will, but I'd stop short of saying everyone who has ever been collared forfeits their character or is a bad rper.No one anywhere, anywhere!, in this thread has said that anyone is a "bad rper".
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - C'kayah Polaali - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 03:44 PM)ExKage Wrote: Also, for clarifications, is Goblet considered within the city or.. not?The water supply in the Goblet was also poisoned.
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - Askier - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 03:44 PM)ExKage Wrote: Got that right.Just told Kage in-game but need to post here. The -fountain- in Goblet is poisoned but the water and river in middle of Goblet is not and drinkable cause there is a water fall and that would have swept poison away.
Also, for clarifications, is Goblet considered within the city or.. not?
So is all of Goblet's water actually contaminated too like said before? Because I still RP goblet mainly as out of Ul'dah physical vicinity.
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - Askier - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 03:48 PM)Melkire Wrote:I used to be one of those! lol(07-14-2014, 03:44 PM)ExKage Wrote: Got that right.
Also, for clarifications, is Goblet considered within the city or.. not?
So is all of Goblet's water actually contaminated too like said before? Because I still RP goblet mainly as out of Ul'dah physical vicinity.
...the Goblet is directly connected to Ul'dah via a passageway by the Miner's Guild. That's really close, vicinity-wise, if not a part of.
I feel the need to state the above because, um, I ran into some people who didn't know that that entrance existed... yeah.
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - Knight Kat - 07-14-2014
Before I try to make a point on something here, I need to do a little summary of certain events. This summary is full of RP story spoilers, but please bear with me as it is important to the point I will try to make.
This event has made me question if I would actually kill off my character if it logically came to that. I think it should be noted that I am -still- a new RPer. I have been RPing for ten months, and everything has been put into Kiht. I aim for the heavy spectrum of RP, but Kiht is technically my -only- RP character. If she dies, I loose all my RP and must start all over on a new character. I am have been trying to think of a suitable alt for months, and can not think of any character that would be as fun to play as Kiht.
(07-14-2014, 03:51 PM)Aya Wrote:(07-14-2014, 03:43 PM)Austurmax Laforet Wrote: I'd encourage everyone to react ICly as they will, but I'd stop short of saying everyone who has ever been collared forfeits their character or is a bad rper.No one anywhere, anywhere!, in this thread has said that anyone is a "bad rper".
No one said those exact words but, Aya, you did say:
Aya Wrote:You can say this all you like, Osric, and I know that you are prepared to accept the IC consequences for Osric.
But good luck to anyone who tries to convince people that they took part in this plot, and wound up as anything except:
A) Dead
B) Permanently on the run from authorities, vengeful relatives, and the demons of their crimes.
Mass murder is not fun and games. Its not redeemable; its not excusable; its not explainable. They can pretend that they have escaped the consequences somehow, but they shall not RP with me.
Unless, I am misinterpreting this, you are saying that you will refuse to RP with anyone who does not accept the consequences that -you- deem appropriate.
You also said this:
Aya Wrote:No question about it. There is no compulsion defense for accessory to mass murder. We should be looking for a triggering device not a disabling one for those collars.
I am sorry, but that seems so "black and white" to the extreme. Anyone who has a collar on is automatically guilty and deserves death? Getting collared is not automatically being an accessory to mass murder. My character has done nothing to deserve that death penalty, and if she survives this plot, I am -not- going to play her as a criminal. She has done -everything- in her power to ensure that Ul'dah was protected, and that Kahn'a had plenty of allies. Even after being collared she sent notes to her FC to tell them to find Kahn'a and save Ul'dah. I can not agree that she is a guilty person, and that is not just because she is my character. I am also arguing this for other characters in Kiht's position.
One thing I agree on is that the consequences -do- need to be discussed.
I OOCly knew about the poison, but did not OOCly know that Jin'li would succeed, or that it would cause this kind of death. As for what Kiht knew ICly? Almost nothing.
If everyone decides to expect my character to die, or be in hiding for the rest of her life after this event, I need to know. I may want to retcon, or pull her out of the plot before it is set in stone.
Also, please note that this post holds no anger. Frustration, and a bit of sadness, yes. But, I am trying to make a calm argument here.
Edit: Also, one thing I have noticed is people seem to want to ICly recognize Kiht even when she is in disguise. Kiht showed up to the event with a bandanna pulled down over the tattoo on her forehead. She wore a lot of face paint that blocked or obscured her facial features and hid her scar. You can not identify the difference between a Keeper and a Seeker until you get close enough to see their eyes clearly. Only the people who got close enough to see Kiht's face clearly should know she was there. Meyla, Khloe, Atticus, Tiergan, Sizha'to, Kahn'a, R'shenn, Naih'ir, Osric, Kanaria and Maybe Erik got close enough to see her face and identify her. No one else would.
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - Aya - 07-14-2014
I might not be able to reconcile someone taking part in the attack on Ul'dah and then returning to the city later on as if it is all okay. That's an issue of plausibility on my end, but I would -never- call such a person a bad role-player. I do not think there is such a thing, just different priorities and concepts of what is fun. Those don't always mesh but certainly the people involved in this thread and plot are amazing role-players, Â if someone is to be called bad for what I said I shall take the label!
In terms of consequences numbers being bandied about are on th e hundreds of thousands. Just think about that for a little bit, and how justice and "justice" will react to an atrocity of that scale. Maybe I am being too black and white but this does not sound like something redeemable by trying to help here and there. I don't know that everyone with a collar would automatically be condemned for it but imagine how many people out there have had their lives ruined by the people who were collared - how careful will those seeking revenge be?
In terms of wanting to think about the consequences this is exactly the point I was trying to raise. I don't think most players with collared characters realized that they would be accomplices to an atrocity, Â and that they should really have a chance to consider their involvement if that event result is to hold.Â
Posting from my phone sorry if there are any typos!
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - Knight Kat - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 09:02 PM)Aya Wrote: I might not be able to reconcile someone taking part in the attack on Ul'dah and then returning to the city later on as if it is all okay. That's an issue of plausibility on my end, but I would -never- call such a person a bad role-player. I do not think there is such a thing, just different priorities and concepts of what is fun. Those don't always mesh but certainly the people involved in this thread and plot are amazing role-players, Â if someone is to be called bad for what I said I shall take the label!
In terms of consequences numbers being bandied about are on th e hundreds of thousands. Just think about that for a little bit, and how justice and "justice" will react to an atrocity of that scale. Maybe I am being too black and white but this does not sound like something redeemable by trying to help here and there. I don't know that everyone with a collar would automatically be condemned for it but imagine how many people out there have had their lives ruined by the people who were collared - how careful will those seeking revenge be?
In terms of wanting to think about the consequences this is exactly the point I was trying to raise. I don't think most players with collared characters realized that they would be accomplices to an atrocity, Â and that they should really have a chance to consider their involvement if that event result is to hold.Â
Posting from my phone sorry if there are any typos!
The scale and level of the crime does not matter when Kiht and a few others took no part in committing it. Just because there is a horrible thing done on a horrible scale does not mean everyone near the thing is guilty because they have a collar on.
The collars are not the same as dumping poison into the water. Jin'li and anyone else who knew what he was doing, deserve to be punished. People who willingly fought for the Garleans deserve to be punished. Those who have the collar, but have -not- helped Jin'li in any way are not deserving of death just because there was an atrocity. If anything, those in Kiht's position are victims until they do something to actually aid Jin'li.
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - TheLastCandle - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 09:02 PM)Aya Wrote: I might not be able to reconcile someone taking part in the attack on Ul'dah and then returning to the city later on as if it is all okay. That's an issue of plausibility on my end, but I would -never- call such a person a bad role-player. I do not think there is such a thing, just different priorities and concepts of what is fun. Those don't always mesh but certainly the people involved in this thread and plot are amazing role-players, Â if someone is to be called bad for what I said I shall take the label!
In terms of consequences numbers being bandied about are on th e hundreds of thousands. Just think about that for a little bit, and how justice and "justice" will react to an atrocity of that scale. Maybe I am being too black and white but this does not sound like something redeemable by trying to help here and there. I don't know that everyone with a collar would automatically be condemned for it but imagine how many people out there have had their lives ruined by the people who were collared - how careful will those seeking revenge be?
In terms of wanting to think about the consequences this is exactly the point I was trying to raise. I don't think most players with collared characters realized that they would be accomplices to an atrocity, Â and that they should really have a chance to consider their involvement if that event result is to hold.Â
Posting from my phone sorry if there are any typos!
This is an absolutely valid position to take In Character - understand, however, that there are other characters who will find it absolutely absurd; being a victim coerced into performing an action, out of fear, does not equal being party to the crime.
As a position to take as a player, out of character, this is absolutely unreasonable and moreover quite disappointing.
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - Aya - 07-14-2014
[quote pid=95605 dateline=1405391944]
This is an absolutely valid position to take In Character - understand, however, that there are other characters who will find it absolutely absurd; being a victim coerced into performing an action, out of fear, does not equal being party to the crime.
As a position to take as a player, out of character, this is absolutely unreasonable and moreover quite disappointing.
[/quote]
Sorry to disappoint you!
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - TheLastCandle - 07-14-2014
Well, you're free to roleplay (or not) with other players as you see fit. Simply understand that this is something that works both ways.
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - Aya - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 10:53 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote: Well, you're free to roleplay (or not) with other players as you see fit. Simply understand that this is something that works both ways.Of course! ^^ Â I hope that doesn't happen but I will not hold it against you.
RE: Blood on the Sands Episodic rp event (Sign up here))(Under Construction)) - Gaspard - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 10:39 PM)TheLastCandle Wrote:(07-14-2014, 09:02 PM)Aya Wrote: I might not be able to reconcile someone taking part in the attack on Ul'dah and then returning to the city later on as if it is all okay. That's an issue of plausibility on my end, but I would -never- call such a person a bad role-player. I do not think there is such a thing, just different priorities and concepts of what is fun. Those don't always mesh but certainly the people involved in this thread and plot are amazing role-players, Â if someone is to be called bad for what I said I shall take the label!
In terms of consequences numbers being bandied about are on th e hundreds of thousands. Just think about that for a little bit, and how justice and "justice" will react to an atrocity of that scale. Maybe I am being too black and white but this does not sound like something redeemable by trying to help here and there. I don't know that everyone with a collar would automatically be condemned for it but imagine how many people out there have had their lives ruined by the people who were collared - how careful will those seeking revenge be?
In terms of wanting to think about the consequences this is exactly the point I was trying to raise. I don't think most players with collared characters realized that they would be accomplices to an atrocity, Â and that they should really have a chance to consider their involvement if that event result is to hold.Â
Posting from my phone sorry if there are any typos!
This is an absolutely valid position to take In Character - understand, however, that there are other characters who will find it absolutely absurd; being a victim coerced into performing an action, out of fear, does not equal being party to the crime.
As a position to take as a player, out of character, this is absolutely unreasonable and moreover quite disappointing.
Actually, this would root back to the point of 'how the world' as in, NPC's, law enforcement, etc, react to it.Â
To give a few examples;
Let's say, all those that got collared, end up surviving the ordeal. Given the current details of the situation, there's a very high chance that those involved, (and seen), Will be sentenced to death in Ul'dah, and to be brought towards the authorities on sight. This is not speculation alone, but if you take a moment to think about it, never has 'being forced to' acquitted someone entirely of their guilt.Â
You can't simply say 'person A forced me to kill a hundred of people' (I know that's not the case with most involved, just a general example). In the Eyes of the Law, you should've then simply allowed yourself to be killed, instead of killing those people. Ofcourse, the sentence will be different then if you would've done it willingly, but I find it hard to believe that any other verdict would fall. You can't go massacre a place and say 'I had to, otherwise bobby B would've tazed me to death."
Also, there's an old german proverb that says 'Not knowing doesn't meant not guilty'. It's a rough translation, but it still holds, and does so in most courts. Not knowing you helped kill a person doesn't make you any less guilty. It may change the sentence itself, but you're still guilty to a part. Now, as we're talking here about nigh-genocide, or atleast a health-epidemic that 'will' end fatally for many of Ul'dahs NPC's, you can liken it to a Nuclear Plants employee allowing some Core to go off cause 'Dude held a gun to my head'.
Now all those theories are nice and dandy if we try to draw parallels for the reaction of Ul'dah towards those Individuals, but we still have to factor in the type of Government that Ul'dah currently is. It is not a democracy, Courts don't always deliver justice, and Death, hanging, and the likes, are probably common sentences for something as trivial as threatening the wrong politician. Given this poisoning of the wells probably endangered all of Ul'dahs Politicians, they 'will' scream for blood, and they will 'not' have to fear that the public will not support them. Quite on the contrary, the Public most certainly will.
So Unless those  in collars find a surefire way to denounce all and any involvement, and most importantly find a way to 'Prove' that they're innocent, I have a hard time seeing how some of them will get out of it. It may not sound fair, but in regards to this plot, that is the only 'logical' scenario I'd personally see.
So my suggestion to those involved, that want to mend the wrath of Ul'dah on their characters, would be:
*Escape Ul'dah once the collars are off, and then run and never come back, as you will probably be posted with a 'kill on sight' note in Ul'dah
*Accept a certain Jail sentence depending your involvement (if it was low key involvement, settle for like one or two OOC Months)
*Accept Death
*Try to go the 'alter your features' route, which Is completely up to you, but will just seem kinda flaky if all those involved just go to the next 'plastic Eorzean surgeon' and get their faces fixed, assuming new identities etc.
As for Aya's Point:
As a Roleplayer in MMO's, the only direct control you have to make sure not to become victim to breeches of RP etiquette, in any fashion, is ignoring other parties. Ofcourse, it's a sub-optimal method, but sometimes, you're left with no other choice. If she says she's not willing to play with characters that, in her eyes, do not adhere to Lore, and make unrealistic plays, that is in her right to do, and perhaps the only method she can implore to manage the quality of roleplay she'll have. We all do it, when we for example ignore some dancing trolls in the Quicksand, or other trolls trying to disrupt our RP.
I think what Aya tried to convey isn't 'If they don't die, i'm not playing with them'Â
but rather 'If they don't find a good reason that makes sense in the current scenario to survive this, With the entirety of Ul'dah on their neck[Including NPC's/Brass Blades/whatnot] out for their blood, I'm not going to aknowledge them because they're breaking with the reality of my Roleplaying World/Immersion'
A wish to keep roleplay 'realistic' (With that, I mean cohesive with Lore), is something I can relate to very much, so I understand where she's coming from. And since MMO RP has no instance Like Admins or GM's you can address, who have the power to decide what 'is right' and 'what is not', in regards to the Plot, the survival of a character, and so on, your only option to maintain quality at such situation is either making said person understand where you're coming from, hopefully have them adjust said behavior, or, which is the easier course, simply ignore them.